Discussion in 'Grappling Martial Arts' started by RJ Clark, Jun 8, 2013.
Yes it says for better Jiu Jitsu, but it applies across the board
I see that extended arm... *evil laugh*
The problem with this list is that it ignores theory. Or leaves theory at the door. 'Read' should also be one of the ten, but then i realise that this would take away somewhat from the novelty of this picture.
Left field. It has nothing to do with theory. The only way you get better at grappling is by training... period. You can read ALL you want. But unless you train.. and train...then train some more. In a grappling world understanding the concepts is one thing, training them to perform on the mat in entirely another.
U r wrong Matt/ in my judo classes we do ground work, but when i found a book in waterstones on jiujitsu with guidelines of how to defend the crouching guard and how to break it, i thought oh huh. this looks interesting. maybe i can learn a thing or two by actually reading the theory, then when i go in and pay off the balance and read the theory i will be able to apply what i have learned to the matt. true training is half of the diadam, but the idea that is the whole of the matrix is flawed as it is weak, perhaps thats the difference between you and me. you like training whereas i like... but that is for another thread. oh yeah and leftfield my ass. stop saying that damm it!
The part bolded would require training on the mat, drilling, etc. Like I said, the only way you get better in grappling is by training. You can read all you like, but putting what you read into something effective on the mat itself takes training.
Theory has already been taken care of in Jiu Jitsu, Judo and various other grappling arts. You can absolutely be a well-read student of martial arts and find and try to apply information (that means use it vs a resisting opponent) from sources other than your instructors once you've absorbed much of what they have to offer and can be considered "advanced". Then you actually have the skill and experience to effectively experiment with "other stuff". Trying to do that before is like trying to reinvent the wheel - no matter how many books you read, no matter how much thinking and theorizing you do, you're not going to come up with anything better than what someone else already has and that is exactly what real instructors in BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, etc have to offer. Once you accept that instructors very likely know a lot more than you about theory, application, etc we can bring you in from left field and maybe let you play short stop for a while
Only "doing" teaches nuance. Only repetitive "doing" teaches your brain the complex sequence of what works and doesn't work in the further complexity of "many permutations and minute adjustments" of those actions/contacts/reactions when that extension of your brain, called the nervous system, fires those messages back to your brain as input... in interaction with those other "sometimes predictable" and "sometimes unpredictable" humans.
As everyone has already said, the "doing", especially against a resisting partner is what develops better skill in grappling. It also teaches selective tension and when to use energy and when not to use energy. Most newbies when starting tend to use a whole lot of muscles and energy just in the beginning of grappling and then gas out soon after and their training partner hasn't even broken a sweat. You can write down notes, read theory in books, but in the end you are putting that theory into practice when you roll. Then you get to see what works and what does not work. This is what we call application.
You don't have to understand the "theory" behind techniques in order to make them work for you. In fact, sometimes understanding of the "theory" doesn't come until long after (somethimes years after) using certain techniques. With time and experience, I have more and more ah-ha moments, where the WHY something works bursts out of the knowing HOW something works. In our dojo, we don't teach theory to kids, but most of them still possess skill and strategy just because of drilling and practice. When they are older, they'll be better able to understand theory, but it doesn't make their techniques less effective. And I'm talking about grappling and striking techniques here. I think this goes across the board.
My Sensei has a saying which I totally agree with: "All questions will be answered with more mat time." In other words, understanding comes with consistent practice. There are some things you just can NOT learn from books.
Just my $.02....
More than theory is the principles behind what makes techniques works and how those principles apply across the board to many different techniques. Using weight drop, leveraging, body mechanics, driving power through the hips, etc. I've found that these principles have carried through my sword training, karate, judo and jujutsu. But discovery of these principles is done through having to apply and even fail at techniques and eventually developing proficiency and building confidence in using these techniques. So pretty much agree with what you've just said but stating it in a way that my own Sensei drilled into my own head over the years.
Here you go John. A compilation whose central concept essentially is You have to train against resisting opponents to truly understand theory and improve your grappling (applies to striking and any combination of the two as well).
These are from a diverse group of experienced martial artists who if you asked 99 other questions would probably have very different answers and possibly be quite contentious about who's the most "right". But on this fundamental issue of training we all are saying approximately the same thing. That should speak volumes. You also seem quite enamored of the works of Morohei Ueshiba, so I'll end this by quoting one of his less esoteric sayings: "Progress comes to those who train and train..."
Thanks guys. I dont know much about grappling and striking even less. There was an old jiujitsu maxim which said that 99% of fights go to the ground. Whilst that that principle has proven unfounded, half of aikido judo karate is theory and the other half application. Its like math. Go and read a book now okay?
I think you just missed everything, everyone was trying very politely to tell you.
If you spend 50% of your time reading theory and someone else spends 95% of their time training and what passes for sparring in Aikido, who will achieve greater results faster? (The ability to demonstrate the application of techniques with non compliant uke's.)
As you said....
And don't go all, "There's more to Aikido than just being able to defend yourself", cause that's a cop out. Getting the philosophical aspects of any MA is easy, the hard part is mastering the skills, hence why they are held in such reverence. Theory is strictly speaking not even necessary to learn until one wishes to understand enough to be able to communicate it properly with others, i.e. Teach.
At the end of the day, no matter what art you study, if mastering the skillset to defend yourself isn't foremost then that's not a MA........that's
Actually, how about you go write a book now? I'm going to set you up with the outline:
1. Write down your philosophy, theory, and other expectations for the application of martial arts.
2. Then go train and spar with someone other than compliant ukes, since that's not martial arts training it's simply choreography. Hopefully you don't need to apply your idea of martial arts for real, even tho that would be ideal and save a lot of time with research for this book.
3. Finally, make an objective comparison to your experiences and what your expectations were.
This diary/log book and the reflections on your experiences might help others with misconceptions about martial arts. Also, you'll probably be looked at as an expert-of-sorts by many even from such little exposure to actual realistic training. It's win-win for you!
RJ Clark, what do you think I've been doing all these years in my development of Jojutsu?
I would so prefer to fight a guy that has read for 10,000 hours over a guy who has trained for 10,000 hours. I would only have to watch out for his middle finger turn the page death technique, and possibly his eloquent correction of my syntax as I scream "whos yur daddy" while driving elbows down.
You can develop power and respect from training
But grasshoppa, u can develop technique and syntax from reading? Jk. Truth b told im really not bothered about the way u write. As authors its our responsability to leave room for the bounds of the other. And i have learnt a lot from just looking at the (aiki) pictures!
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