Aikido vs Kickboxing a study.

Discussion in 'Video Instructional's' started by Locutus, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Battodoka07

    Battodoka07 Warrior Monk

    One thing I dislike about many Aikido or JJJ schools is so many student focus on forcing a wrist lock when an opponent resists. We train with full resistance so forcing one lock is not going to work especially if the other person knows how the lock is done. We also train Newaza (Ground or BJJ to other folks), clinch/Judo as well as striking. One thing we try to do is have at least 3 main submissions from top, guard, side control, etc. Techniques that we feel works for us and we constantly drill and then practice against resistance. I remember training with a blue belt and as uke I was passively resisting and letting him do the technique. Next day he started getting a little too cocky when doing technique with a white belt and when I trained with him again I took resistance up a notch and stuffed his technique. I then explained to him that it's different when someone actively resists and knows the technique hence why I told him it would be necessary know to learn how to adapt and flow into a different technique or find a way to neutralize their strength (knee to groin, etc).

    Wrists locks aren't useless as I've heard from some people and come by done effectively when grappling or when having to cuff a person.
     
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  2. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    The main principle of Aikido is to work with the resistance, not against it. So if the person is resisting then, if you are a proper aikidoka, you must change your technique. At least that is what my sensei teaches. :)
     
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  3. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    There is a distinct difference between someone resisting a technique and effectively defending against the same technique. Although there are some guys who are pure beasts who can potentially defend just by resisting (if you haven't encountered that you haven't rolled enough or had enough diversity in training partners). You don't necessarily need to transition against resistance, by all rights proper technique and position will allow you to execute the lock or choke regardless. That's where experience and sensitivity combine into the "art" of knowing when to continue with a technique or to flow to the next. But perhaps I'm also just splitting hairs with terminology...:)
     
  4. Battodoka07

    Battodoka07 Warrior Monk

    That's where I was going, except it does take time and experience to develop variable sensitivity. I've seen some schools get so caught up in just focusing on "technique" rather than developing an understanding of the principles behind the technique and what really makes it work. And I definitely feel you on rolling with guys that happen to be "pure beasts." Just toss me in a cage with a lion while we're at it too is what I come away feeling sometimes, lol.
     
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  5. john2054

    john2054 Nearly graduate

    Hi can I just add to this thread, that what we do in Aikido is largely compliant. There may well be other schools, and other people certainly who will cause you head-aches in life. But when you bow and step foot onto our mats, there will be none of that here okay?
     
  6. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Which is why I have serious doubts about the efficacy of Aikido in non-controlled conditions.
     
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  7. Battodoka07

    Battodoka07 Warrior Monk

    "We do not rise to the level of our expectations but fall to the level of our training."

    Hence why I still believe that if there is no form of realism in daily training then a person is doing themselves a disservice if they expect to handle the many variables of what can occur in a real life fight.
     
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  8. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    I agree with this. Having said that I don't train for real fighting. I train for competition so maybe I'm doing myself a disservice should I get into a real fight. ...
     
  9. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Not necessarily. You can look at fighting like merging with traffic, it's easier to do if you're already traveling near to the highway speed (competition & realistic/cyclic intensity martial arts) vs trying to merge while stopped (average joe) or while moving slowly (most martial arts & self defense training).
     
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  10. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Great fucking analogy!

    I am so stealing this!
     
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  11. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    It really was. (y)

    Join the club!
     
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  12. john2054

    john2054 Nearly graduate

    There is a problem with this analogy however. As soon as you remember that the majority of martial arts used by the military by this western civilization is against far out-gunned civilian populations (look at Iraq for instance), you will realize that this great applaud that the majority of the noobs who populate these sites will easily subscribe to. Okay you may say that I am biased because this is the style that i practise, but Aikido fits in quite nicely with my philosophy because I like the philosophy. The idea that you can do a style without hurting anybody appeals greatly to me. In Karate you get kiaied, in Judo you get thrown, in TKD you get kicked, in BJJ you get rear naked stroked choked sorry. But in Aikido you get what? Talked to. Calmed down. Roughed up a bit sure, but not too bad. What's more the instructors I have known, the ones i have known well certainly, have not placed themselves above the students, but on par with them. This is the key.

    Please remember we are not living in feudal japan, and the laws in this country can in theory arrest anyone for so much as carrying a kitchen knife on the street, much less a Bokken. I am not disputing that these are not easy times at the best of times, but some of the concepts that some of you lads are still holding onto stinks badly of that brittle and knotted wood that betrays a crooked and aged martial philosophy, much less the modern and engaging one that i so desperately try to engender in my dojos, when i go there.
     
  13. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    A loss due to being punched, taken down, thrown, kicked, chocked, or joint locked if you face someone trained to actually fight against a live resisting opponent who has built his skills through realistic sparring.
     
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  14. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    Who pushed your buttons :D
     
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  15. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    He's trying to catch up to Matt. :devil:
     
  16. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    why is that ?
     
  17. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    No he's not. He has way more posts of awesome than me. I think Enkidu will agree that when you have a first name like Matt.. You piss excellence.
     
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  18. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    I would deny it if I could, but I cannot.
     
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  19. Battodoka07

    Battodoka07 Warrior Monk

    You just ignored the whole purpose of this thread. The very thing you mock in many of these martial arts is what actually works on the streets. Have you ever done live training such as this?:



    I train in multiple Martial Arts. One is a traditional JJJ style based upon Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. Another is a Japanese sword style. And I admit both are not completely practical in this day and age. However I do another art that has more modern application and develops a person to work in free movement sparring, clinch and ground. Those same locks I learn are then tested in all three of these phases with resistance and the other opponent defending themselves as well.

    I studied Aikido when I was younger and my father was stationed in Japan. I visited the hombu last year when I was in Japan. I know about the history of Aikido and it's founder Morihei Ueshiba and the relationship between his teacher Sokaku Takeda.

    So what many of the other members of this board are saying is actually valid. One thing that is important to learn as a martial artists is to accept criticism, that leads to growth and self-mastery. And any art that ignores such criticism does a disservice to its students and in my mind can lead to cult like group think.

    That's fine you have your own beliefs and philosophy and gear your training to that end. The thing is we don't live in an age of golden utopia and people still kill each other from the dumbest reasons. I've looked at the records of people I deal with on a daily basis and some of them never evolve or change to make themselves decent human beings. So that outdated martial philosophy you so disparaged still applies in this day. Just talk to any street cop who works in a major metropolitan city.

    That being said I'm not advocating going all gung ho and not trying to deescalate a situation when it is warranted. But it is also important to maintain a good command presence when faced with hostility. It really depends on the situation on what you have to do and your situational awareness.

    If you get offended by this post, then fine, nothing I can do about that. You can choose to take what I have posted however you like.
     
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  20. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    great post (y)
     
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