Basic Counters (to counter Seoinage)

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Midnight_Omni, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Midnight_Omni

    Midnight_Omni Initiate

    Hello everyone, I've recently taken up Judo (loving it by the way) and the majority of the time I train with a yellow belt who is around my weight. When we do randori I notice that he tends to always go for his favorite throw: Ippon Seoinage, could anyone give me any hints on how to counter? I'm considering trying to jump over his leg and spin into a Taiotoshi or something similar, or maybe plant my leg and lean back to pull him into a Tani Otoshi. Would these work?
     
  2. Ken Suenobu

    Ken Suenobu Grasshoppa

    I'd say that it depends on where you are in your training with the art. Don't expect to know everything yet. The yellow belt may be using that throw because it works very well for him, but remember, there's always counters to every attack. Practice some ideas and see what works. As you progress through the belt ranks, you'll gain insight, and you'll see the light. :)
     
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  3. Dave76

    Dave76 Deheuol Gwyn Dragon

    Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki sensei , 8th dan, has some clips out there on u-tube dealing with this. Tried to copy them over for you but this site wont let me :( Type his name in thou and you should find them pretty easy:)
    Also, don't be shy about asking the guy himself after he pulls it off, just shake your head in acknowlagement and ask if he could show you how to counter, or ask one of your senior students after class if they can just quickly run you thru a few counters. No one will think you a fool for wanting to learn more...
     
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  4. Kevin

    Kevin Admin Staff Member

    Sorry Dave. Last week we received an attack from spammers which resulted in dozens of spam threads on the site. To counter this I've made it so that members need to have a few posts in order to post a link. Spammers always post links in their first post so it's a great way to discourage them.

    I realise this is a pain and it's something that many members need to do, but I hope you appreciate why this is necessary. If you need to post a link and you haven't reached the limit yet, email or message me and I can do it for you :)
     
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  5. Dave76

    Dave76 Deheuol Gwyn Dragon

    :)It's ok, I'd allready posted other videos, so that was what had me stumped, but if I'm sure if Midnight_Omni is really interested he'll track the link down for himself.
    Were'nt you interested in Kravmaga, Kravmaga, Kravmaga, Kravmaga, and oh....what was that other link again???:inpain:
     
  6. WonderingFist

    WonderingFist Disciple of Mind

    I have an answer...though it's not conventional judo.
    1st basic counter - when he throws his leg back right before stepping forward...Shift your adjacent leg forward - if you can, try and catch his knee. Calf muscle works too.
    2nd basic counter - if he's stepped and is about to shift his weight inwards as his moves his arm in (preparing to throw you and all that), shift your weight through the gap created between his opposing arm and the ribs. If you can get your arm in there (the more arm - the better) - then you can push him with your sides and a firmly planted position.
    3rd basic counter - if he's going to throw you no matter what, swing round with your free hand, and try to pull him down via his neck and his own force.

    It's savoury, but it'll work ;)
     
  7. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    I am not a Judoka, and often the names of stuff confuse me. That said, through both wrestling and BJJ I have learned just enough Judo to be dumb enough to think I know how to answer the question. Yes, if you have good timing, a counter to the seoi nage is to jump over the leg. There are a few decent continuations after that. Another technique that can work as well is a pick-up, however, this counter would have to be executed a bit earlier, as you are out of position if your opponent has already got his hips lower than yours and is in the process of executing the throw.
     
  8. ghost

    ghost Disciple

    What I do when working out with my Judo friends with respect to this throw: At the moment right before Nage (Tori) goes to execute this throw, place your free hand on the small of his back and push as he attempts to thrust his hips into you. I also draw my controlled arm in simultaneously, with the push, as best as I can. It helps if you can also brace whichever leg corresponds to the arm controlled by Nage or in front of Nages strong side leg. If you can time it right it works every time. However, an experienced Judoka will have a counter to your counter. Also, I do realize throws are executed from the right side in traditional Judo. Some schools work throws bilaterally, as friends of mine do.
     
  9. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Forget the step around for tai otoshi, if he's exploding into ippon like he should the step isn't there. Respect to ghost, but I would suggest getting tighter, not using your hand to push away. Widen and drop your base and use the free hand to grab his hip and draw yourself in with the trapped arm as well. Don't attempt tani otoshi until you dissapated his initial force from the ippon attempt, then you can shift slightly and sit into tani otoshi or execute ura nage (the pick up that Enkidu suggested). If he still tries to muscle ippon and you slide off his shoulder maintain your free arm hip grip (ideally grabbing his obi) and roll into a modified hikikomi gaeshi. If he tries to muscle ippon, and especially if he falls forward, with you tight on his back you're in perfect position to execute daki wakare (as soon as you roll over in daki wakare, lock in okuri eri jime to really get him to think twice about going for ippon if you're allowed to pursue newaza after your throws).
     
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  10. Nexquietus

    Nexquietus Disciple

    Throw him first. Be insanely aggressive. Constantly fight grips. If you initiate one throw, chain together two to three more. He may see the first one coming, but most new Judoka try one throw and stop when it doesn't work. My brother and I used to chain Ogoshi, oouchi, koouchi, and uchimata together (i think i got the names right, it's been a while). Hit with 4 attacks that try to take your opponent three different directions, it's hard to think that far ahead if they are reacting.

    Like RJ said, Base drop and do what you can to make it a non ippon throw. Then ready for ground fighting. Too many folks train like that's the end when they get thrown. How many times do you see a true Ippon in competition? Half the time? Less? Now think about all the times you try to throw some one that is even less experienced than you. It's hard to get a good ippon because they flop around and move strangely. Ask any black belt who they fear getting hurt by in the Dojo and they will all say the White belt because they are so unpredictable. When you get thrown, forget all the nice break fall you practice, and try to fall so that it's not pretty for the opponent.

    jim
     
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