Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' started by Kevin, Jun 26, 2012.
My friend shared this on Facebook so thought I would post it here
Two conflicting contexts for training and learning there.
I could be wrong (I am don't know the BJJ ranks all that well) but doesn't that uke out rank him? If so, that was a huge dick move and he deserved to get slapped. I personally would not have hit him but I would have told him to get out of my class and off the mat.
Terrible that it went down like that. After the instructor made clear that "We're just doing a move, not a roll." and he still resisted near 100% on the next grip CYCLE THAT STUDENT OUT. What school (speaking primarily about grappling) doesn't demo a move with slight or no resistance and THEN progress to drilling it at or near full speed with full resistance? The instructor should not have "mugged" him (the face grab and push) but that student wasn't a newb - he knew the learning process and procedure.
He was wrong to hit him but apart from that the instructor showed a lot of restraint considering the student was doing his utmost to humiliate him. There's obviously a back story to this. Perhaps a bit of bad blood in the past or the student doesn't like the instructors teaching methods.
I assumed from the student's uwagi being pulled open a bit and him grabbing a drink that it was likely they were just rolling. That the instructor probably did "get the better of him" in the student's perception, rather than learning from it he pulled that juvenile move to get a rise out of his teacher. (I inferred a lot from that video, lol)
I could be wrong (it happened once before) but the guy in the black gi is wearing a blue belt. The guy in the white gi appears to be wearing a brown or black belt ... It seems to me that he is just being a jerk to be a jerk.
Yes, it is the back story I question here.
Honestly, my mind reacts in a worse way to handle this, specifically if it is intentional disrespect... anyone teach small joint manipulation any more? I know my reaction is wrong.
I totally hear where you are coming from. From a pressure point background, I know a couple ways to soften up that grip - and I 'might' be tempted to daze him a bit.
This video is part of a comedy series for those who haven't realized yet...
they were both being inappropriate, the uke should have been excused, the demonstrator should had dismissed him before loosing his temper. It reminds me of a demo i did using a wrist crank. The volunteer was trying to mess me up, he was a weight lighter with redonkulously strong wrists and was determined to show that i could not bend his wrist to apply the crank... he was right, i could not over power him when he was focused on that, when i Bag-tagged though, his wrist bent like cheap wire...
In other words to make a technique work often times you have to think around the problem...
One of my jujitsu instructors was a guest judge for a kenpo belt testing. One of the kids was testing for her yellow belt. She was demonstrating a yawara technique against a wrist grab. Her attacker was easily three times her size and a brown belt. He cranked down on her arm so hard that she started to cry. Her teachers were yelling at her to do her technique. My teacher stood up and stopped it. He pulled her aside and told her that when she went back up to forget the technique that she was taught. When he grabbed her again, he told her to kick him straight in the groin to bring him down to her level and then poke him in the throat with the yawara. She went back up and the guy grabbed her hard again, this time he started laughing at her ... the laughter was cut short needless to say and he had to be rolled off the mat.
Part of a comedy series?? Not funny at all.
To comment on it as if it was a real situation: Blade Maker is right that both had inappropriate behavior and the situation should have been stopped before it escalated. Still, the way the brown belt just stood there mindlessly gripping makes my own anger and adrenalin pump. I think the blue belt showed amazing restraint. On the other hand, not being able to remove the grip in slow movement usually means that the same thing done faster would not work either. So, the brown belt might have been teaching, albeit ignorantly, that the wrist release was not being done correctly. They definitely had a failure to communicate - something that could have been worked out before filming.
Damn, I spend to much time on this site and commenting on things It's troubling to see little vignettes, little windows on a whole situation, like other people said without more knowledge of what the "backstory" is. There is a line between demonstrating something that everyone knows is coming and it requires a modicum of respect and cooperation from the "Uke", because no one wants to get hurt and no one wants to hurt someone. (I hope). Obviously this could have been handled differently and it seems there is something else going on we are not privvy too, but the Instructor should have stepped back and said "this is a demonstration, so not full speed or power" and if the Ule would not respect the need to break things down the instructor should have laughed and got someone else. But again there are probably a bunch of dynamics to this class that are unknown.
In a real life, the enemy would grab firmly and their body will be stiff. You can't freaking tell a murderer "Hey, loosen up your grip and relax your arm" and then slap him if he won't cooperate. This only means that the technique shown here will only work on ACTORS.
My sifu/teacher in Wing Chun NEVER tells us "Hey, don't resist so the technique will look fancy." Never. My sifu would rather say "You're giving it up on purpose. Resist it a little, so you will know how it works and how much it hurts." He would always say "Don't just stand there. Do something different. Use your other arm. Try to defend yourself." He always wants his demos to be as realistic as possible so we can see that his technique works in a real situation. This is how a real master should teach.
The teacher in the vid was just angry because he realized that his technique does not work if the opponent is a bad actor.
I'm sorry Anthony, but I gotta call bullshit on that. Any technique that is demonstrated the first time, must be explained and broken down. Obviously a modicum of resitsance is necessary and after the technique is shown, demonstrated then speed and risistance is upped. Obviously an "enemy" isn't going to respond to your request to "go easy", but even saying that is ridiculous. In a demo both sides know whats going to happen. I certainly don't explain to someone who comes and grabs me in anger what my techique is going to be to reverse it. The object is to instruct. Hell if my instructor tells me what he is going to do to a certain attack or something he is demonstrating I can then reverse his reversal and then it becomes chaos and the lesson is lost man.
I immediately thought of Eddie Bravo when I saw this. Eddie used to put stuff out on youtube all the time that wasn't real for humor purposes. It was funny, but I don't think for a second this was real. A couple clues. First, the "instructor" is a blue belt, the second lowest of the 5 BJJ belts. The "student" is a brown belt, the second highest (and the "instructor" says "yeah, whatever" when being "introduced" to him at the beginning). At least one of the other "students" is a purple belt, the middle belt in BJJ. This has "work" written all over it.
Oh... if you take a close look at the brown belt "student," you might notice he is someone familiar...
Obviously the brown belt didn't catch the "evil death stare" at 1:02
When being used as the meat to demonstrate a move to others it is common courtesy to be compliant to allow the other students to see how the move is supposed to work, after 2 or 3 demos you can then hang on so the instructor can show that it will really work if you are not compliant. That's how my JJ club used to do it anyway.
Brown belt at fault for being an arse, blue belt at fault for losing his rag, saying "sorry I'm having a bad day" doesn't cut it when you enter the (insert name of your training facility here) *Dojo* you should try to clear your mind of all that has troubled you. I believe this is one of the reasons why many trad Japanese styles begin the class with Mokuso, to focus your mind on what is about to take place rather than dwell on what may have happened earlier in the day. Forgive my ignorance if other styles also do this.
I can appreciate how frustrating it must have been though to be shown up when doing a demo for others to learn from, perhaps if the Big G had just gone for the release and throw for real even though he said he wasn't going to do it would have got the message across better than a slap.
I watched some of the others in this series, to me this Big G seems to be advocating cheats to deceive the referee, if cheating is the only way he can win that says enough for me.
I haven't watched any other videos in the series, but from what you are telling me, this is even more proof that the posted video was a joke and not real.
And then the scenario is this... "realistic as possible" may require a dangerous reaction. The instructor and the Uke were not on the same page here. So, do I use a "lesser technique", or move right to Hapkido thumb break #2 learned in the first month of Hapkido ( along with the other 4 basic thumb breaks, inverted knee breaks, all standing sweeps and falling). It is not a submission move, it is "pull to snap" move. Now, Uke has a broken right thumb in the first 2.5 seconds of this "training" exercise. His grip in broken... the next move is shown. Welcome to alternate reality case study #1.
I don't disagree with what your Sifu says, by any means. I am simply saying there are levels, and as you approach true full speed, there can be significant risk. Techniques have situational uses... period.
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