Changes.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussions' started by Ian White, May 15, 2013.

  1. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    And... to pile on...
    These short sequences from multiple forms... we add them together dynamically... and do drills as such.
    We will be told to start a form (our choice)... so it has direction and sequence, and then in the middle of that first direction our master will call out a next (or a specific form) and we have to instantly change direction and sequence to a different form (called out or chosen)... with most important part being no hesitation and continued flow.
    We also do reversed direction forms.
    We also do backward forms (reversed sequence).
    The effect of all this is it breaks you out of the... "I need to do this next" mindset and causes you to apply/break/apply/break/apply different sequences as the "lead in" dictates.
    And while there is a place to turn off this mindset and react "freely"... there is a great application to "barraging" your opponent triggered by every move/position that they attempt.
     
    Master of Nothing and RJ Clark like this.
  2. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    THIS is good(y) To pull the pieces of the technique cataloging (kata) and applying them rather than the catch-all Oh yeah, running through my forms/kata makes me a better fighter/better able to defend myself. Then running these dynamically as two+ man drills is very much uncommon when it comes to kata, from what I've seen and experienced.
    What I can see coming next is how someone considers having a "partner" in front of them for their entire kata is the same as what you're doing. Which it certainly isn't, in particular because to be able to run through their entire kata most often entails specific force predictions (uke must react to the "pain" in an exact manner) to be able to run through the whole form...
     
    Caneman likes this.
  3. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    Agree... this is where I say everything has its place and why we need all the training methods.
     
  4. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    Depends on your definition of martial art, I would think ...

    An art implies (to me, anyway) something beyond the purely physical, beyond the purely utilitarian. It implies a philosophy, perhaps, or an ulterior motive for training.

    And beyond that is the question of preserving a heritage, a tradition - if you give up the forms you're usually giving up the Rosetta Stone of the art. You'll have nothing to consult when you're lost, nothing to fall back on except a few techniques for which you have no idea of their meaning.

    At least, for the traditional arts ... what's out there now, I cannot speak for.
     
  5. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    I am pretty sure that if Kata made you a better fighter there would be wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, and BJJ kata. And, no, shadow boxing is NOT kata, no matter how many times people try to make it sound like it is.
     
  6. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Does this make Picasso a martial artist because he painted Guernica?

    [​IMG]
     
    SifuPhil likes this.
  7. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    No, but it does make him an artist ... :rolleyes:
     
  8. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    yea for learning the flow of the movements these work very well especially on the "self defence" aspect , break the attackers grab, strike,twist subdue, or snap :sneaky: did many of these with teuk kong moo sool and they can be very effective, we would also drill them dynamically, person would do what they want and you had to try and stop them, does lead to injuries though but showed the flaws in your technique pretty quickly under pressure

    I agree with most of the comments about how we need different elements to be trained so we can "fight" but the one does not equal the other, simulated "combat" to me in terms of learning will always outway forms or katas. Like when u learnt how to drive a manual car, you know the actions of what to do but being in a car with traffic trying not to stall is a different story in the beginning(thought id throw in a non martial arts analogy:D)
     
  9. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    Right... because (for example) BJJ moves have no scripted steps... no progressions, etc... We could, in no way, apply the process of steps such as are related to forms. :rolleyes:
     
    Aaron and SifuPhil like this.
  10. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    Annnnnnd ... once again the aggressive mind-set takes over and TOTALLY forgets that katas are not MEANT to be direct-t0-application tools.

    To be fair, though, katas have been misunderstood for centuries, so why should today be any different? It's not like the martial arts actually evolve or anything ...
     
    Aaron and Locutus like this.
  11. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    No disagreement here. I was never saying that forms were superior in any way.
    Or that flying X47B drones off of a carrier, could ever replace a direct piloted aircraft (being silly sarcastic here)...
    Of course actual simulation of high speed contact is best... with all its dynamics of "controlled fighting."
     
    RJ Clark likes this.
  12. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    but these in application is how you learn not just doing the motion in isolation by yourself

    Sorry its not meant to come across as aggressive just that for me in a striking art it needs to be demonstrated, doesnt matter if you can do crazy copoera style kicks if you cant land anything just means you are a good athlete
     
    SifuPhil likes this.
  13. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    (y)
     
  14. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    Oh, I totally agree. My argument is with those who totally dismiss kata in favor of their latest technique. Kata is a tool - they see it as the end-product, which it was never meant to be.
     
  15. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    Which is why i said something earlier about the name we use to describe what we do. Not every language uses the words martial or art (or whichever words translate to mean the same) to describe what we call martial arts.
     
    SifuPhil likes this.
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Shadow Warrior

    Lets backup here... I dont know many 6 year olds that can really fight properly, to make a comment about this for a 6 year old... IMO that instructor deserves a swift kick in the nuts.:mad: I teach that age group getting them to focus at that age for more than 10 minutes on kata is almost impossible, let alone be able to perform it at the level that you are mentioning Ian.

    At that age I would rather have them be able to learn some basic self defense, kata, weapons basics (basic basic), quick attacks to take down someone larger than them(like a kidnapper). Fighting should be focused more on when they hit puberty or shortly after that, when they can actually develope some muscle to protect there skelton structure more, and also develope some strength/power to there techniques.

    If she's doing kata that good at six, by the time she hits 8 or 9, with a little bit of training and some sparring, she'll ve able to kick ass! Dedication, dicipline, and good training and knowledge(like that gained from kata and research) make a good fighter.

    A good martail artist/fighter is like anything else, the more time and focus you out into it; usually the better quality the end product will be.
     
  17. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    YOU MAD BRO??? I BET YOU DON'T EVEN LIFT!!! Seriously are you kidding? A 6 year old "take down" a kidnapper? No 6 year old kid is taking down an adult. Unless they have a gun maybe but I'm not suggesting we arm children.

    Other than that I agree with what yiu said, it's amazing that one so young is so good at something most kids her age find as boring as watching paint dry!
     
    SifuPhil, RJ Clark and Enkidu like this.
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Shadow Warrior

    I teach them not to give up at all costs... foot stomps, groin grabs, eye gounging, small joint dislocations, anything that causes enought pain to give them a few seconds to escape. Takedown was a bad choice of words on my part.... but they should be able to make a enough time to escape.
     
  19. Battodoka07

    Battodoka07 Warrior Monk

    Better wording in this case. Have to yell, scream, bite, whatever they need to. People around might not help immediately as is showcased by this video:

     
    Judah, SifuPhil and Aaron like this.
  20. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    Wow, just wow. I know I would do something.
     

Share This Page