Do we want/need another martial art in the Olympics?

Discussion in 'News' started by Judah, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    Personally having seen what's happened to taekwondo since it became an Olympic event I'm not sure we need to massacre anymore martial arts by making them Olympic events.

     
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  3. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    How about the one where girls twirl ribbons?
     
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  4. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    I'm not entirely sure that counts as a sport or a martial art.

    Goodbye Mr. Bond....
     
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  5. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

    What I know, when Taekwondo was recognized as an olympic sport, IOC was to choose berween Taekwondo and Karate, but the argument that made Karate lose was that it wasn't well represented in a certain number of nations in order to have a fair contest in the olympic games. Still, I think it's the most famous martial art on the world, at least more than Taekwondo.

    Talking about it with my master, he said the story was a little bit different, it had become an olympic sport due to a millionare donation WTF had given to IOC. Does anyone know if that is really true?

    Anyway, to keep in topic, i think olympic sports should represent the human needs of survival and pragmatical activities.
    Like all kinds of athletism, shooting, weapon combat, martial arts, cycling, swimming... not sports like soccer, decorative gymnastics or chess.

    And since the martial arts in the olympics already cover most of the existing fighting thecniques, as grappling, thrwoing, submission, kicking and punching, as well with weapons, I don't think it's necessary another martial art in the olympics
     
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  6. Master of Nothing

    Master of Nothing Psychotic Pacifist

    The TSD Masters warned the TKD Masters not to do it. The stated the fact that once TKD was "given" to the Olympics. It would no longer be a "korean martial art". They pointed out that Judo was a prime example of that price. Once the world takes ownership of any art form on a competition basis it would be subject to political manipulation through foreign relations. In turn robbing it of quality control. The TKD masters didn't listen and now we see "how the mighty have fallen". As for MMA. Although some great fighters have been born through its practice. The Sport of submission fighting was born in the commercial arena. I don't think it there will be much difference since it already is riddled with politics, marketing, and grandstanding.
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Shadow Warrior

    If mma goes to the olympics, there will only be more rules, silly protective padding and head gear, not to mention that they will probably add some more stulid rules to water it down.
     
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  8. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    I think it's pretty pathetic to criticise the Olympic TKD style since the competitors this year showed some real flair. It isn't the only set of TKD sparring rules and it might not be your favourite but the criticism seems to smack of absolute jealousy and tribalism. Signed, an ITF-style Taekwondoin.

    Master of Nothing, I really don't get your comment about WTF not being a "Korean martial art" apart from the fact that the HQ is in Korea, the Certification body is in Korea and the rules state that Korean must be used in officiating at all times.

    As someone who knows the history of TKD will tell you, the intervention of the Korean government in the running of TKD has been too close and TKD has been too political from the outset. The more "international" and "less Korean-govt. run" the art gets, the less political it gets, not more. Any style that starts with the word "World" or "International" should be an art for the world and all people in it. No, I don't see how the "mighty have fallen". Kukki-style TKD gets much strength from the Olympic inclusion, far more than my style (ITF) or TSD so I really do't understand your gist. Just because sport Taekwondo exists, it does not stop other elements of TKD from existing. That is nonsensical (Would you say: "Only the element of TKD that I like can exist, everything else must stop!").

    MMA cannot go to the Olympics because there is no true amateur system and a good fighter can make a lot of money with only 5-6 fights (certainly get to the UFC). If you can earn money, why go to the Olympics. The UFC does not allow its fighters to compete in other MMA competitions so no UFC fighters will compete. Thus, an Olympic MMA is an absolute pipe dream and cannot happen.

    I think the Olympics should push to include Submission Grappling including BJJ, Catch Wrestling and other styles. This actually was an Olympic sport once before and does not overlap with any existing sport (Wrestling has no submissions, Judo has a time limit on ground-work and no positional points system). This is already a "competitive" sport and would not be affected by Olympic inclusion in any way that could be construed as "watering it down".
     
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  9. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

    One instructor of my dojo was telling us once, that Taekwondo had competitions like real Kumites or the non-olympic Boxing (idk the name) bare handed, no pads or helmets, and each fight was a huge event, like the UFC today.. Pro-Taekwondo, I think. And with the protective gear and the olympics it all fell appart.

    It became more well known world widely because of the olympics, though.
     
  10. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

  11. Master of Nothing

    Master of Nothing Psychotic Pacifist

    UK-Student. I've been teaching TKD for over 23 years. My masterinstructor is Kim, Chul (or Chol) Hoe. His master is Ko, Eui Min, one of the original masters of TKD. I've seen TKD make several transitions over the decades. I'm well acquainted with several of the older masters. I even judge tournaments in NoVa.. So, you might say my knowledge of TKD history is pretty much "straight from the horse's mouth".
     
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  12. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    I don't doubt your credentials but I also think what I said was correct.
     
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  13. Master of Nothing

    Master of Nothing Psychotic Pacifist

  14. Eric M. Miller

    Eric M. Miller Samurai

    i second master of nothing. been doing this for 7 years. my teacher is master doug johnson, who studied under grandmaster Lee Parks. olympic tkd is foot tag. and not a REAL martial art (you know the kind designed to be used in war to kill people)

    next time you are in a conflict, try fighting like i saw several of them doing: hands away from your head, by your sides to protect your torso from getting hit for a point. throw in some lunging backfists. have your body close to the floor and just fling up a leg so they cant get near your head or torso. also, no strikes below the belt.

    when you do all that, comeback on this forum and post how much your medical bill added up to.
     
  15. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    I would rather you argued with what I had to say rather than "my master is....".

    None of the WTF guys are trying to argue that their style of sparring is REAL self defence. They would freely admit that the sparring rules are not. It's a sport, in the Olympics, which is a sporting event. It doesn't mean that the rest of Kukki TKD including the self defence aspects do not exist.

    Furthermore, every type of major organisation's tkd sparring whether point stop or continuous cannot be considered real self defence because it rewards high kicking and excludes grappling, elbows and knees. None of us can say that our major organisations have "realistic" sparring rules because none of them do and they are all in the same boat of being unrealistic sports with some crossover benefits to what you would call "real" martial arts.

    As for "Foot Tag", world level ITF sparring is definiately foot tag. Everything outside of Muay Thai and K1 level Kickbxing is foot tag. We play "foot tag" to get better at kicking, and if that in itself turns into a sport, there is no problem. As I said in my original post, it does not invalidate the self defence aspects of taekwondo. Because I play football, it doesn't make me a worse boxer.

    If you think that all a "REAL martial art" is is no-holds barred full contact fighting then all of TKD can be said to be invalidated by MMA. Should TKD lose it's etiquette (politeness doesn't win fights), should it lose it's uniforms (uniforms don't win fights), should it lose meditation (doesn't win fights). I don't think that is true and I don't think what you said is right. Martial arts can be realistic self defence, but they can be other things too - such as practising forms....something we all do that is not a "Real" fight or even a good way to fight. In many forms the hands are down by the waist exactly as you say, but you don't criticise yourselves the same way you criticise the Olympic competitors.

    Can you honestly say that what I am saying is not true? Does not make some sort of sense?

    I was taught by my instructor to respect all honest martial artists and I will defend the Olympic competitors from unfair slander to the hilt because that is what I believe them to be.
     
  16. Dpendleton

    Dpendleton Warrior Monk

    So true Eric. You do that in self defense you will get murdered.
     
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  17. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    Please let me know who it is that says Olympic style sparring is pure self defence because they seem to be spreading some misconceptions to the people here.
     
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  18. Dpendleton

    Dpendleton Warrior Monk

    Uk I will say this I think an olympic taekwondo player can and would beat the average street fighter.
     
  19. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    It depends on the martial artist. It is too hard to generalise. Olympic-rules sparring really has very little relation to street self defence. Whether or not that martial artist has practised self defence as part of his wider training is all that matters. No currently existing form of sport sparring is good enough.

    What I am saying is - just because WTF Olympic sparring is not full on street combat MMA with eye-gouging allowed, does not mean you can sit here and falsely claim outrage and say "It's not real martial arts. It's not real self defence. It's not real fighting". It's silly. That comment earlier about martial arts being designed to kill people. Yes and no to that - YES martial arts should be violent for the purposes of self defence but NO not everything a martial artist does must be a deadly kill-move. If that were true, we would hardly kick at all because kicking is secondary to punching in self defence because attackers usually only initiate violence at closer-than-kicking range (imagine a red faced guy trying to push his chest on yours, you clearly don't let him do that but he won't let you get back to kicking range either).

    If a WTF guy was reading this forum and seeing you guys trash his art when his sparring isn't even supposed to be self defence and he does separate very hard self defence training in his own Dojang (just like I imagine you guys do) then his spirits would be crushed and you guys unfortunately are making him feel like that. You should be respecting these guys as they work very hard.

    You can say "I prefer sparring with both punches and kicks," but to say "WTF is not a REAL art", well, come on that is just BS.
     
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  20. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

  21. Dpendleton

    Dpendleton Warrior Monk

    That is true. I think if you are ingrained at sparring or training a particular way it will show in a self defense situation. I hope olympic stylist train in self defense.
     

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