Irish Stick Fighting

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Scorpion Ninja, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    Any good tutorials on Irish Stick Fighting this is what it's like
    Lesson 2
     
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  3. liam

    liam Disciple

    There are no DVD tutorials that I know of, there is a lot of video on youtube though. Also, facebook has several groups. I would give you the names and contacts, but I swore off facebook for lent (yes, I am the horrible Catholic), hit me up after the 21st of April and I can give you more info. But a really good place to start is with John W Hurley. http://johnwhurley.com/ He wrote a book on it, you can get it from Amazon or other locales. He is top notch.

    Also, the video is of a Canadian martial artist, family name Doyle. He says he got this from his dad. No reason not to believe him. Even though I would be hesitant to believe anyone calling themselves "Irish Stickfighting Grandmaster." It seems like a sales pitch, and plus the last faction fight was 1877, and he didn't come out with his family style until Bhata started to gain popularity. Irish stickfighting grandmaster is like me calling myself an Alaskan Surfing Champion, or an Arabian Jungle Survivalist, it don't make sense. The terms were never used and the ranks were never given, I have a thing of not supporting people who promote themselves, specially to Grandmaster. Its total BS. Also, you must realize there are hundreds of different styles. Every family, or faction had their own style as it were. Many practitioners have merely started to work with the shillelagh, forming groups referring to ancient texts for direction. Some may have had a little passed down, but in reality I would say 99.999999% of ALL faction fighting was lost over time. The last recorded faction fight was in 1877. So it's basically a rebirth.

    Another good source is Ken Pfrenger, he trained in other arts but has been doing the research on Bataireacht. There are also several groups online in forums training and discussing, trying to help one another, they are usually free, and most of the time people are rather good. I used to have a few great sources, let me see if I can track them down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
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  4. liam

    liam Disciple

    And keep in mind, if your wanting to learn this, it is best with Irish Bareknuckle boxing, sorry for the edit here, but I just realized I didn't give you an idea of what I was talking about. It is pre-Marquess of Salisbury rules. Similar to what Hatmaker teaches for his dirty boxing.
     
  5. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    I do Taekwondo how'd it be with that?
    I have John Hurley's e-book Shillelagh the art of irish stick fighting & Irish a Gangs and Stick Fighting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  6. liam

    liam Disciple

    you can combine it with anything, its just that the stick fighting comes from the movements as boxing. The only kicking the Irish were doing were low kicking, or shin kicking. If you sit back and examine the other forms of Irish martial arts they have a few things in common. For example, Collar and elbow (similar to greco roman/judo), boxing (pre-Marquess of Queensberry rules. and just realized I wrote salisbury, I must have been hungry, sorry), they both have shorter stances. Not the wide karate or TKD stance. But how you combine and adapt your stick fighting is up to you, there are no rules. But a good faction fighter knew several things, may not have been great at them all, but they were very close to modern mma fighter. They had the stick (knife or axe as well), kicking, boxing, wrestling. They didn't limit themselves to gentlemanly rules, they fought.
     
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  7. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    Thanks
     
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  8. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    For those that want it: Grips, Guard and Stances Introducing the Modern Shillelagh Project
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
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  9. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    Go with Doyle Stick Fighting if your interested in Irish Stick Fighting because John W. Hurley says there authentic.
     
  10. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    Irish Stick Fighting is based on Irish Boxing
     
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  11. liam

    liam Disciple

    I wouldn't go with Doyle for any sum of money, no matter what John W. Hurley says, I may take a seminar or two, but that's about it. John W. Hurley is a student of Doyle, and in such he is bias. He has valuable information he has gathered from independent sources and I still think he is a good starting point with those independent sources. I just have a real hard time believing Mr. Doyle and his wild/unprovable claim that he is the only person alive to know this and that it is valid. "Rince an Bhata Uisce Bheatha was passed down through numerous Doyles to one Edward Doyle who emigrated to the island of Newfoundland around the year 1867 ...Edward passed on the Doyle stick fighting art to his son Christopher, who in turn passed the art down to one of his sons, Gregory Doyle who in turn taught Glen." So, when I read his claim, the Doyles passed all their knowledge on to one guy, Edward, who basically left Ireland I guess to keep it safe from English tyranny. He and he only passed it onto his children, all the other Doyles allowed it to die as the secrets were safe in a new land. Man, that's worse than the movies Glen write.

    To kick it up, he didn't even start to teach till after 2004 when there was a craze for Irish Stick fighting, smells fishy. I won't drink the kool-aid. He may have some knowledge but I sure the heck don't believe he is the lost great grand puba of the lost puba nation, smells like BS. Much better to do independent study and find your own way than to follow the way of a blind man.
     
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  12. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    Liam, I I'm inexperienced at any form of stick fighting and was going by johnwhurley.com since he wrote books on the subject I'm only planning on going to seminars as I don't live near there school but if there is any proof he's lying I'd like to see it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  13. liam

    liam Disciple

    There is the same amount of proof that he is lying as telling the truth, none. These are my questions (the quote is from Doyle's own website), "Christopher, who in turn passed the art down to one of his sons," where's the other sons for validation? Is there photos/home movies of the great grandfathers, grandfathers, cousins, uncles, nephews, brothers? What happened to Christopher's other sons side of the family, can they validate he claim? If this was such a family tradition in the Doyle family, why didn't Christopher's other sons pass it on? Is there any proof he knew this before 2004?

    Ninja, I am not saying don't go to the seminar. It's your choice and I am sure you will learn something. I have 25 years of stick experience and I am sure I would learn something. It's just that I am skeptical of fanciful claims I am just a little more jaded than most. No matter who gives them a bias endorsement, John W. Hurley wrote a couple of books, he didn't ascend from the heavens. I tend not believe people just for the sake of believing them, specially when money is involved. To me it's not always can I prove their claim wrong, but can they prove themselves right. Now, I'm not asking him to step up for a Dog Brother challenge, but a little proof would go a long way.
     
  14. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    Your right he didn't ascend from the heavens and as I don't know him personally I can neither confirm nor deny his claim that Doyle is the only true master.

    Here is my Shillelagh
    [​IMG]
    The organization I hope to join. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  15. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    Irish Stick Fighting is based on Irish Boxing.
     
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  16. Sneaker

    Sneaker Warrior Monk

    my concern is small vs big ? short arms vs long arms ? ... switch places and lets see how small shorty do it against big guy ?
     
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  17. liam

    liam Disciple

    Sneaker, I'm only 5'6", the more the person is trained, the harder it is. But usually I can still get inside and null their reach.
     
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  18. liam

    liam Disciple

    Ninja, nice bhata
     
  19. Sneaker

    Sneaker Warrior Monk

    I am no taller than 5.8 and its a great challenge who is over 6 footer ... I fought football player ... OMG they got power ... so I better move fast than to block it and counter
    ;)
     
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  20. liam

    liam Disciple

  21. Scorpion Ninja

    Scorpion Ninja Grasshoppa

    I already knew about Antrim but don't know if it's lineage is real.
     

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