I've only come back to give some bad news...It's offical

As you guys know, I don't like to moderate a forum too heavily, as it can be frustrating for members.

I'm happy for people to discuss off topics like this on the forum as long as it doesn't get out of hand. You need to remember that we have members from all around the world. Many have different religious views and many have different political views and views on life in general. These are subjects that we could perhaps discuss calmly over a beer if we were all sitting in person but on a forum many things can be taken the wrong way as it's not always clear the context they were written (unless you use a smiley after every other word).

Like most people, there are subjects I have very strong views on and others which I don't feel too strongly about. Religion and politics are subjects that nearly always cause problems as they are subjects most people feel very strongly about. Attacks on someones beliefs on religion and politics can sometimes feel very personal and other times may even come across as racist, xenophobic or just damn right ignorant.

Feel free to continue discussing this subject though please be respectful of other peoples views, even if they are contrary to your own

 

Actually, it looked like everything was handled quite well, even tho three of the posts were "hand grenades thrown into a picnic" to paraphrase myself. Kononmi is obviously a bit...unstable right now. The counters to his thread were abrupt but not overly harsh. The accusation and conspiracy theory were quickly picked apart with intelligent responses that were appropriately heated (hard not to be passionate when responding to those two items).
Perhaps when someone is just voicing an opinion that has no factual basis they should remember to add on the catch-all disclaimer of IMO. Then the responses may not be quite so cutting and remain on a more friendly point counter-point level.

 

I wasn't getting involved in the discussion beforehand and certainly suggest I agreed with anyones views.

This brings up the discussion about what the truth is. For example, I'm atheist. I believe religions are all man made. To me, there is as much truth in the story of Jesus as there is in Zeus or Santa Claus. Which is why I pray to Joe Pesci

I am not going to start criticising people here if they do follow in religion. My parents are religious, as are many friends, and it is their right to believe what they want (even if I strongly disagree with their views).

When it comes to Politics, it's difficult to say what the truth is and what is bullshit. I've been to the USA several times and certain news there is reported very differently to how it is in the rest of the world.

I don't believe that the USA is trying to expand their empire, though I think it's also naive to believe the presence of the USA and British troops in Afghanistan was about 9/11. It's well documented that most of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudia Arabia yet the government ushered out lots of important Saudi Arabians after the event happened and the USA and my own country then went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think it's a coincidence that the major contracts and oil deals were divided up in Iraq and Afghanistan between UK and American companies. Does that mean the war is about oil? Who knows, the media and politicians spew so much bullshit that it becomes impossible to say what the truth is and what isn't (I have no doubt oil plays a factor though). It's called mis-information.

The media has a bad habit of changing who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. The taliban were trained by the USA when they were at war with Russia (look at the final message at the end of Rambo 3). They didn't turn bad guys overnight - the agenda just changed.

This has happened in the UK as well. During the Iraq Iran war they reported that Iran gassed the Kurds. When we went to war in Iraq ten years later they changed it to say that it was Saddam who gassed the kurds. The only thing that does seem clear is that Winston Churchill did gas Mesopotamia in 1920 - or perhaps it's not clear, perhaps it will always remain as 'alleged'.

Even when a government tells its people that it is remaining neutral, it usually isn't. A great example of this happened a few years ago (I think during the second Lebanon war). Two planes stopped in Scotland from the USA for re-fueling. The one going to Lebanon was full of guns, bombs and other weapons. The one going to Lebanon contained food and other aid.

About a year before European countries started raising Libya more in the news and in politics etc, there was a great article in a British newspaper that predicted it would happen. It confirmed that around 5% of Libyan oil supplied around 95% of the oil in European countries. This was why the British government, and most other European governments, were playing nice with Gaddafi, despite him being a dictator etc. The article said that they would try and woo him with deals etc but if he wouldn't play ball on certain issues, they would start pushing the agenda via news channels so that they could justify sending troops there.

Again, is this the truth? Who knows. Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. I just know that no one here in this forum really has the right to say what the truth is and what bullshit is on a lot of subjects - including myself. I read a lot of history and I do have views on a lot of subjects. I also enjoy a good debate from time to time however I know from experience that it's difficult to have debates of this nature on forums. As I noted previously, things are taken out of context whilst other times people just have opposite views.

I do understand why their posts upset you though. I'm sure I would feel the same on many subjects, particularly if people were making accusations about my own country etc.

 

The taliban didn't exist but most of them had been trained in the 80s by the USA (eg Osama bin laden).

With regards to Iraq gassing the Kurds, the western media generally supposed Iraq initially and Iran were portrayed in a negative light. A UK newspaper highlighted this and showed articles and headlines from when the news had been announced originally. It highlighted how the media can manipulate facts to push an agenda (they showed lots of examples from world war I and II).

I'm not saying these wars were just for oil, though they are definitely a big factor. The fact that countries like Zimbabwe and Myanmar had dictatorships for years and Western countries didn't intervene highlights that the natural resources of a country play a big part into whether troops get sent. Why did our countries even go to Iraq? Not sure if it made the news in the USA but the consultant who was hired by the British government advised that there were no WMD in Iraq. Shortly afterwards he committed suicide in a park, despite apparently being a happy person who lived his family and had no previous history of mental illness.

It was shown that most of the money or mom Iraq has been filtered out to major oil companies. For example, there was one major contract that was awarded to an American company. They sub contracted it to a French company, who in turn hired a local Iraqi company. The Iraqi company got about 20-30% of the original contract cost, with the rest being split between the American and French companies. This happened frequently with British companies too. I just don't buy the reasons our governments went there. You don't have to have a big bullshit radar to know that lots of the facts and reasons being given when we went to war was bullshit. Millions protested in the uk and our government still went. So much for democracy.

 

It became something else entirely. You may want to start at the beginning of this thread. Trust me when I say that will be quicker than trying to explain

 

For future reference, any 'goodbye' type threads will be closed or deleted. They never contribute anything positive to the community and are usually just a poorly disguised attempt to hurt the forum in some way (by causing arguments or telling other members to leave too). If you aren't enjoying Black Belt Forums, just leave. Obviously we don't want that though this is a free forum and you can come and go as you please. Goodbyes to friends should be done via private message.

Anyways, back to the off topic debate