JKD popularity

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by KungFuBoojBJJ, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. KungFuBoojBJJ

    KungFuBoojBJJ Disciple

    Hi,

    When I was looking at taking up Martial Arts again recently, JKD was one of those that I would really like to have tried. However here in Ireland it seems JKD schools are few and generally located in some rather inconvenient locations. In contrast there are TKD, Kenpo and Judo classes available within a 5 minute walk from my house! I guess the availability of Kenpo all across Dublin was what really got me wondering..

    How is that the Martial Art founded by Bruce Lee seems to lack the popularity of some other martial arts? I don't know how many people had heard of Aikido before Steven Seagal appeared on the scene for example...
    Was there any kind of split in the JKD community after Bruce's death that might have hindered the art's advancement and popularity. I realise I could google some of this, but I would probably get distracted and end up reading stories about Bruce instead :D So I figured I would ask those in the know here and hopefully get an inside opinion in the process...

    Going back to how available Kenpo is here in Dublin - Ed Parker Kenpo has not been around much longer than JKD, yet there must be at least 20 places I could train in Kenpo all across the city, I can only find 1 JKD place and it's miles away! So is it just the fact that there was originally a lot fewer students of JKD that were able to spread the word and teachings after Bruce died?

    Anyway, I look forward to your opinions and thoughts on the subject! :)
     
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  3. Deborah

    Deborah Ninja

    Fom what I know, when Bruce Lee died everything went to pieces. Arguments over styles, what was true JKD and the likes. There were only very few people Bruce taught and when he died, they chose not to pass it on. Linda Lee set up the Bruce Lee Foundation and told all they have to follow a certain way, in a nucleus, some agreed, some didn't. I will have to get back to you when I have checked out the facts again. Many do still practice it from Salem Assli in France to Dan Innosanto in LA. I am very lucky because there are two JKD gyms 15 - 20 miles from my house. I am DESPARATE to keep his name and art alive as so many people find it the ultimate in martial arts when they have had the chance to study it......Love, peace and respects my fellow JKD follower XXXxxxXXX
     
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  4. Aaron Hutto

    Aaron Hutto Master

    It is so hard to say what is a true version of the style and what isn't - especially in the case of a style like JKD in which you are encouraged to adapt. I am really shocked that there are not more official 'methods' of the style. I found that when I trained in Kajukenbo (which is another style that encourages adaptation). There is the original method (The Emperado method) but then other masters have their own take on (Gaylord, Dacascos, etc).
     
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  5. KungFuBoojBJJ

    KungFuBoojBJJ Disciple

    Hmm, maybe that's the reason!
    Specifically that training or learning in JKD or Kajukenbo never really ends as such and there is an emphasis on constant learning, adaptation and a distillation process!
    Interestingly there's no Kajukenbo here either although again that started out quite recently as an evolution from other Martial Arts, so maybe it will get here some day!

    I guess it depends on the organization as well though, I mean there's loads of places doing Krav Maga, which again is another quite new Martial Art, but known to have quite aggressive marketing, etc.

    Seems like there's lots of factors involved in what become the most popular Martial Arts!
     
  6. Deborah

    Deborah Ninja

    What have you done to me KungFuBoojBJJ??? What a can of worms to open, I have thought about this all afternoon and considered wether or not to say EXACTLY what I thought.....and seeing as I have never been known to keep quiet about anything that I am passionate about I am gonna have to put across my views on this. There used to be many more JKD clubs but Linda Lee and one other told everyone (including my own gym), that if they were to display the JKD logo they would have to follow a certain way of training and then they could not display the JKD logo......I find this damn infuriating:mad:!! As I have followed Bruce Lee's way all of my adult life, to be told I have to follow certain ways to train did not bode well with me. I mean I thought that idea went against everything Bruce Lee and JKD were about. Follow way as no way............Bruce Lee told us all to follow our own path, to explore all arts. I don't think I am allowed say whether or not my gym bowed down to all the politics B******T But from my personal point of view is that you are supposed to follow way as no way, Bruce Lee and JKD are in my blood, in my soul and they have my heart, maybe one day, when I win the lottery I will open my own JKD gym and refuse to bow down to peer pressure and politics, OR Linda Lee (ooooops, sorry Ms Lee, no offence meant it is just that maybe you didn't really know what Bruce wanted. I mean I know you trained alongside of him at times, but you didn't train with him daily. I'm sure if you did you would not have chosen the path you did!!)
    Hahahaaaa anyhoo I am away to take some of my aggression out on my puch bag!! All my love, respects and smiles xxxXXXxxx
     
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  7. KungFuBoojBJJ

    KungFuBoojBJJ Disciple

    Lol, sorry Deborah!!
    Some of this Lineage stuff really fascinates me for some reason though - not specific to JKD, but most of the MAs seem to have had some sort of split at some stage - like Wing Chun/Wing Tsun/Ving Tsun.
    Even within my own current art of BJJ, or rather GJJ - there are schools of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu that are not Gracie schools - the Fadda lineage of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for example placed more emphasis on footlocks, and never trained under any of the Gracies. Fadda himself was taught by a man called Franca who in turn was taught by the same person as Carlos Gracie - so Carlos Gracie and Franca has the same teacher and both went on to found their own schools and yet it seems hardly anyone has heard of the non-Gracie lineage of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu!

    But anyway, enjoy taking all that frustration out on your punch bag! :D
     
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  8. Deborah

    Deborah Ninja

    Hahahaaaa.....I feel sooooo much better now:D!! Forgive me for being nosey but do you train under tha Gracies?? Peace, love n respects my martial friend xxXXXx
     
  9. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Gracie Jujutsu owes its lineage to Kodokan Judo (BTW, leg locks were a part of the pre-WW2 Judo syllabus). GJJ/BJJ is really just pre-WW2 Judo newaza.
     
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  10. KungFuBoojBJJ

    KungFuBoojBJJ Disciple

    Well I don't train directly under the Gracie's but, my sensei trains under the Migliarese brothers in Philadelphia, who in turn trained under Relson Gracie - so it's the Gracie lineage alright, although there are variations and differences even there.

    I guess all I know for definite at this stage is that the longer any Martial Art exists, the more likely there are to be divergences withing the Art! Maybe I should just accept that as an inevitable truth, but as I said, I just find the whole question of lineages and divergence quite interesting :D

     
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  11. Deborah

    Deborah Ninja

    Cool thread though, you have defo got me thinking!! Keep up the good work...love, peace and respects XXxxXX
     
  12. KungFuBoojBJJ

    KungFuBoojBJJ Disciple

    Well it's evolved into it's own thing at this stage really.
    There's a focus on certain positions and techniques in BJJ that does no exist in Judo newaza, it would be more similar to modern Kosen Judo, but even then there are a lot more intricacies and subtleties to the BJJ guard position than there is in Judo newaza.

    But that's a whole other can of worms really :D

    It;s funny how some arts diverge and then go back to their roots to adapt certain things again, I mean just think of the Japanese Ju Jitsu lineage - Judo, Aikido, Hapkido all have some ancestry in JJJ, and then Judo specifically spawned BJJ, Sambo and then it's own variations of Sport Judo, Kosen Judo, etc
     
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  13. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    I'm not saying that BJJ has stayed stuck on pre-WW2 Judo Newaza, certainly it hasn't, but at its core, that's really what it is. Obviously the rule sets of modern competition BJJ and modern sport Judo have created a further divergence in the two arts, but fundamentally, both modern Judo and modern BJJ are just streams that have branched off from pre-WW2 Judo. Some BJJ practitioners have (mistakenly) tried to erase those ties or make it seem like Helio Gracie changed the Kodokan Judo he learned from Maeda, but that isn't the case. The changes in BJJ occurred more organically due to separation from much influence with Kodokan Judo. Some BJJ practitioners have tried to argue that Maeda didn't teach Kodokan Judo but was more a combination of Judo, catch wrestling, Fusen Ryu Jujutsu, among other things. I don't really buy this theory either.
     
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  14. Aaron Hutto

    Aaron Hutto Master

    Does Linda own the JKD logo?
     
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  15. Bruce

    Bruce Samurai

    I think so, there was a huge bust up a few years back, and alot of the surviving students sided with linda leaving DI out in the cold, alot of DI's students also left him to join the new org, headed by Linda. You would probably need to go over old MA's mags of the mid to late 90's early 2000's to really get an insight to all the political BS.

    Originally the idea was to bring everyone under 1 banner and weed out all the fakers that were using the JKD name without having any direct liniage to BL or his students. However, it turned into let's get DI. Many were jealous of his popularity and they disagreed with his approach, they wanted to keep JKD frozen in time ie as it was when BL was alive.

    Personally can't be bothered with the politics, i just want to train & learn.
     
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  16. KungFuBoojBJJ

    KungFuBoojBJJ Disciple

    It's kind of weird and frustrating how many martial arts suffer from these sort of divisions. I had my suspicions about JKD which is why I asked the question initially - it just didn't make sense to me that Bruce's art (not you Bruce - Bruce Lee! :D ) could be so hard to find really.
    I only tried Bujinkan briefly, but that suffers from a similar split - there are the Genbukan , Jinenkan and a whole load of other off shoot organizations at this stage!

    I think it's all rather unfortunate, especially when it hinders the development of either or all of the arts involved.
    I mean if one branch wants to preserve the historical version, and another wants to evolve and not include techniques that involve medieval Japanese battle costumes, that's fine, but why can't they just accept each other.

    Similar to JKD, I am sure most people in the know would probably presume Dan Inosanto would know more about Bruce's intended evolution and plan for JKD than Linda Lee. I mean I can understand Linda's desire to preserve the legacy and integrity of Bruce's memory and legacy, but when that excluded the most senior post-Bruce JKD practitioner, well then there are obviously problems. Of course we should not overlook the fact that maybe Brandon's unfortunate death contributed to this as well! (The Crow was one of my favorite films by the way!!). I mean maybe she just felt as though it was all slipping away...

    You know I reckon there's enough intrigue, conspiracy and complications for a good book on the subject! Not just JKD, but all the Martial Arts, they almost all seem to be ingrained with shadowy origins and divergences, debates, splits and evolutions!

    Fascinating stuff! :D
     
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  17. Bruce

    Bruce Samurai

    you could well be right
     
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  18. Deborah

    Deborah Ninja

    Yup Aaron her and Takimura......Peace, lov and respects my great martial friend xxxxXXXXxxxxXXXXxxxx;)
     
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Shadow Warrior

    What makes this all worse is Inosanto trained Brandon Lee for quite a while up until his death. Considering Inosanto was one of three people that were ever given authorization by Bruce Lee to teach JKD.

    JKD is a group of concepts/principles/philosophies that are applied to a group of martial arts. From what I remember the goal was to strip away parts of the arts that you found as useless, and keep what you deemed useful.

    I myself prefer the Inosanto group myself. It's more open to new ideas.
     
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  20. Aaron Hutto

    Aaron Hutto Master

    That seems to make sense. War is in a constant state of change. Shouldn't then the warriors be as well?
     
    Deborah likes this.
  21. Aaron

    Aaron Shadow Warrior

    Yes ws should... you could look at it as an "adapt or die" type of thing.
     

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