Joe Rogan teaching TKD techniques to Duane Ludwig

Discussion in 'Taekwondo' started by MattCMMA, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Grasshoppa

    theres a video on youtube of joe rogan saying that tkd is stupid he says he got really good at something thats really stupid yet these videos contradict those statements
     
  2. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    Not really he says that some of the kicks/footwork are transferable to other styles but says that tkd in isolation has shortcomings, he mentions the hands down approach. So in these vids he is showing one of those kicks and how with a set up they can be utilized
     
  3. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    A. Props to you Matt for calling the first video a spinning back kick. I mean that seriously, as there about 5 variations depending on position. Agreed. Good short tutorial on this, also known as a back pivot.
    I so find it interesting that Joe calls it a spin side... traditionally it is not a spin side. But this a subtlety in the difference of some Korean arts... and not worth arguing.
    Joe is using very good plant foot position and hip position.
    There are a couple things with this kick that really important: plant heel faces target; this is a straight kick - if you aren't looking over your shoulder then you have rotated too far (and lose all your power); you have to point your "butt" at them... the side of your cheek of the leg your kicking with.
    He has a good short discussion on chambering, but doesn't call it that. This kick moves from a good tight chamber, not from the ground. This positions that side of your "butt" like the gun barrel traveling down to the heel.
    The same side shoulder will rotate toward the ground on good hip rotation and extension.
    The only thing I would tell Joe, for what it is worth coming from me ;)... STOP doing that lead arm extension crap. Keep the hand up by the "gray matter". If someone "slips" in traveling with the rotation, the whole side of his head is open from the top... usually an ax or hammer counter.
    B. You do know that second video is a spin kick, also known as spin hook, sometimes known as a heel kick (though you can strike with the flat if you need to reach)? I assume you do.
    Once again, he executes a very good technical kick with good rotation, snap and ball of the foot rotation.

    And again... will say props to Joe too... good form.
    I don't like how he doesn't immediately re-chamber or move to stance as he finishes, in both videos. It is a pet peeve of mine when you leave that leg out there, without a "hip reset" to your full fight posture... and can form bad habits.

    Again... I am a knit picker. Joe's kicks look very good. And the first video is one of the best "for" shortest tutorials I have ever seen. I would recommend trying to kick higher than lower first, but understand his reasoning completely.
     
  4. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

    I don't know why ppl from other styles complain so much about the hands down in Taekwondo... If the world champions of this style fight like that, it seems to work for them , right?
    There are like some triggered answers.. everytime someone talks about taekwondo in any context, you bet there are going to be some of the terms: "hands down", "unnefective spinning kicks", "useless for self defense" and "why no punches".
     
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  5. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    This made me laugh, coming from you.
     
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  6. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    To them, I would say... as I defend all arts for the context of how each technique is applied... Joe is showing an excellent tutorial for a back pivot. Not how to counter all martial arts moves in 3 minutes. :)
     
  7. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

    The guy also said something very interesting "There's no money in it".
    About the hands that he's saying... it's like a boxer trying to get into kickboxing as well, he's gonna get his ass kicked the same way.
    Other styles like kyokushin and shotokan karate would probably have a hard time on a kickboxing match.. It's just a matter of learning something new.
    People seem to miss out a lot in the difference of the arts.
     
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  8. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

    YES these videos are great, specially the first one, my side kick improved 100% in 30 seconds
     
  9. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    If you are referring to my comment... it isn't about "hands down" so much as it is about driving the arm in the power delivery vs. leaving it in the protective position and letting the driving of the hips and shoulders do the work through the spine.
    When it comes to TKD... I have seen multiple "world class people" "master" the torso back, lean in rounds and counter that with a lead leg face tag.
    JMHO.
     
  10. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

    actually I started typing that even before you did, but my connection went down :confused:
     
  11. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    Thats the beauty of MMA, it isn't style specific, so you aren't really constrained by any rules. If you are a TKD guy and want to just kick, you can do that. You will probably lose, but you can use anything you have!
     
  12. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    And don't forget this video of Joe... With GSP.

     
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  13. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    I have 2 x 3rd Dan TKD training partners that competed internationally, When we first started training they would have the hands down approach many a times they were able to move effectively and deliver brutally hard and fast kicks from crazy angles and get out of range but when experienced guys started taking the first hit and moving into close range they started getting hammered with head shots and elbows,They had to evolve like we all do, so now they are able to do what they do from range and now have the close game to go with it . So from a striking perspective they are brutal. So in a tkd/karate/kyokushin(any point style) to a more open rule set like k1,mma.muay thai,oriental where you cant reset after every point there would need to be some adjustments, The same as if i started competing in mma, I would need to improve my ground game because striking is my strength.So i dont think its a tkd is etc etc its just showing an element that would need to be worked on when moving into a different rule set
     
  14. Pedro

    Pedro Baek Doo San

    yes, sure.. but everything seem to relate to mma these days
     
  15. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    Its because its the fastest growing sport in the world, but mma has evolved from being many arts combined to being almost its own style now, but it is a sport so not the best self defence etc necessarily but thats a different debate;)

    Its also a bit of a jack of all trades scenario for the average practitioner, obviously the elites are heavily qualified in specific arts and then evolved but many of the up and comers train "mma" and are ok at everything not specialists, We have many "mma" guys come to improve standup with us because thats what we do, same as the UFC guys going to Freddie Roach to improve their boxing
     
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  16. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    Personally, that is one of the reasons I have stuck with Korean arts in their entirety...
    I will call this approach MTMA as in Multiple Traditional Martial Arts.
    It takes a lot longer to approach it this way, of course...
     
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  17. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    All things take time... deep or broad... it is hard to go deep and broad without a lot of time... but once you do, and focus on the cross (transitional) movements between arts, I think it is better. But then again, it takes more time, so shouldn't it be better? It is all the same stuff. MMA is really just a mix of MTMA anyway. There are only so many ways the body can move.
     
  18. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    It's not so much a complaint as an observation of a shortcoming/vulnerability when faced with other striking or even grappling arts. As for the world champs of TKD keeping their hands low, well that isn't an argument for the wisdom of keeping your hands down in a fight but a result of fighting under a rule set that protects from any consequences from having the hands down.
     
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  19. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    Well said RJ...
    Is see it all the time in TSD too. This is what I observe about students who keep their hands down, typically:
    1. They are usually faster than their peers (already have an advantage)
    2. Usually have good footwork and are good at keeping range
    3. Usually understand a "fade" well
    4. Sometimes are just a little bit cocky...
    Here is what I tell them:
    You won't always be the fastest. Train like you aren't and you will have one more advantage.

    Once in a while you see someone drop hands on purpose even though they are a hands up "kind of guy". That is usually a psychological baiting of some sort... either to give an appearance of opening for counter, or a taunt, or even fatigue... those hand drops are different.
     
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  20. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    That video explains alot. OK... agree and he calls out two kicks that he now shows in the two videos that Matt posted. Did no one else watch the second video. Guys... the second video is a spin kick (spin hook, wheel kick, etc) it isn't a back pivot, the first one is a back pivot.
    Two videos, two different kicks... both very good.
     
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