Korean Zombie makes a plea to GSP to stop wearing the "Rising Sun" design

Discussion in 'Mixed Martial Arts' started by MattCMMA, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    Interesting. Initially I thought he's being a bit sensitive, but he does have a legit point. I don't think GSP was in any way doing so on purpose.

    Enkidu likes this.
  3. Vldz

    Vldz Warrior Monk

    I think Korean Zombie can simply shut up.

    Just my opinion.

    Rising Sun is a symbol of Japan or the "raw" motive of Japanese flag. It is not a symbol of atrocities. It can be likened American' bald eagle or Chinese's dragon or Australian kangaroo.

    Despite of what happened in the WW2, it is no secret that there are a lot of westerners who feel that "Rising Sun" or even "Kamikaze" Kanji to be somewhat cool. Otherwise, we wouldn't have George Lynch' ESP "Kamikaze" guitars, or "Bushido" series MMA clothings. This is the reason why GSP wear "Rising Sun" outfit.

    I am of Chinese background, and my forefathers have been brutalised by the Japanese in the past, therefore I am more than qualified to comment in thing kind of things.

    The only reason why Korean Zombie stated this kind of thing is due to his over sensitivity towards the Japanese symbol.

    If GSP "respect" Korean Zombie's request to eschew his "Rising Sun" outfit, GSP will simply set a precedence to letting "some people" dictating everybody else on what to wear.
    Charlay Atkins likes this.
  4. Dave76

    Dave76 Deheuol Gwyn Dragon

    One part of me say's Mmmmm, fair enough, but then the larger part remembers this little gem...

    stephan fry.jpg 2.jpg
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  5. Vldz

    Vldz Warrior Monk

    That's right Dave. It is kind of embarrassing to see people whining like that.

    Doubly embarrassing to know that it came from a fighter.
  6. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    It is interesting, when I was doing Japanese martial arts, a lot of the students had rising sun head bands. We knew that it was heavily represented by the same kamikaze pilots who attacked pearl harbor. It was interesting, in the early '80's, that not a single person ever told us not to wear them. I have never even thought about comparing it to the Nazi swastika. At the first glance of the letter I was thinking, hmm, he makes a point, but I think Americans have just as much right as any other culture to be offended, yet we are not. If GSP decides to stop wearing it, that's fine by me, and the same if he continues to wear it.
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  7. Charlay Atkins

    Charlay Atkins Samurai

    I find this quite interesting on how people perceive this symbol. If GSP was wearing a gi with a Nazi swastika, would this not be seen as a form of racism?
    Don't get me wrong I couldn't care less either way, I just find it interesting how we perceive to see certain things as being acceptable and others are not, after all does this not amount to the same thing?

    Just because someone is wearing a symbol on their gi or clothing does not mean that is what they think, it is more than likely that they like the symbol. If someone else decides to take offence to what they are wearing then that becomes their problem. We all have the right to wear what we like and we shouldn't allow others to tell us what we can or can't wear.
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  8. Void_Karateka

    Void_Karateka Pauper Karateka

    I think in Korea Japanese Samurai still can't be publicly depicted in most modern media because of the bad blood between the countries. I remember some years back there was a hooha around the launch of a beat em up on the Playstation 2 called Soul Calibur. One of the characters is a samurai. For the game to be launched in Korea they had to redesign him specifically for their release. In the end they changed him into a blonde haired English guy called Arthur who dresses in samurai armour.

    At the end of the day if the guy doesn't like looking at that symbol on GSP's gear then he should just stop watching his MMA career.

    I'll stick with the Stephen Fry quote ;)
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  9. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Given that the Japanese may have murdered more civilians than even the Nazis did, among many many other atrocities, I can certainly understand why many throughout Asia think of the rising sun as a symbol of hate on par with the Swastika.
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  10. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    I think it comes down to intent with issues like this. Any given image that can symbolize nationalism, pride, etc for one person can represent something very different for someone else. GSP's intent when wearing it obviously is to represent his martial arts background and not to validate or support war atrocities committed by the Japanese. I think that the swastika is the only symbol that is virtually impossible to give a free pass on the duality of it's meaning due to the overwhelming negative connotations linked to it from it's use by the Nazis. Which is unfortunate as it's an ancient symbol that had a positive meaning.
    Vldz, Dave76 and Charlay Atkins like this.
  11. Gone

    Gone Guest

    I hear Adolf Hitlers personal cook was a Jewish lady, too. There seems to be a lot of inconsistencies on behalf of the "Allied Powers". America, Australia, England, and so on all had slave camps, concentration camps, and political prisons. Still do, actually.


    (also, some of the links on the side have curious titles. Gonna check ém out. Maybe some you blokes should, too)
  12. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    That would be according to US and Europeans.
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  13. Dave76

    Dave76 Deheuol Gwyn Dragon

    Australia has it's own bone to pick with Japan over war crimes.

    Like the other Allied personnel captured by the Japanese, most of the thousands of Australians captured in the first months of 1942 during the conquest of Malaya and Singapore, the NEI and New Guinea were held in harsh conditions. Australians were held in camps across the Asia-Pacific region and many endured long voyages in grossly overcrowded ships. While most of the Australian POWs who died in Japanese captivity were the victim of deliberate malnutrition and disease, hundreds were deliberately killed by their guards. The Burma-Thai Railway was the most notorious of the prisoner of war experiences, as 13,000 Australians worked on it at various times during 1942 and 1943 alongside thousands of other Allied POWs and Asians conscripted by the Japanese; nearly 2,650 Australians died there. Thousands of Australian POWs were also sent to the Japanese home islands where they worked in factories and mines in generally harsh conditions. The POWs held in camps at Ambon and Borneo suffered the highest death rates; 77 percent of those at Ambon died and few of the 2,500 Australian and British prisoners in Borneo survived; almost all were killed by overwork and a series of death marches in 1945.
    The treatment of the POWs prompted many Australians to remain hostile towards Japan after the war. Australian authorities investigated the abuses against Allied POWs in their country's zone of responsibility after the war, and guards who were believed to have mistreated prisoners were among those tried by Australian-administered war crimes trials.

    An exhumation of mass graves in Ambon after the war revealed that the Japanese summarily executed about 300 prisoners immediately after the occupation. Their remains were interred in the War Cemetery at Ambon.
    After the war, Japan blamed the executions on the practical difficulties of holding prisoners when Japanese troops were needed for other duties, and the problem controlling the Australians, who supposedly proved uncooperative and inclined to try to escape. In reality the massacre was largely carried out as revenge for Japanese servicemen killed on the minesweeper which sank on February 2. The Australians were bayoneted, clubbed to death or beheaded. Not one of them captured at the Ambon airfield survived.

    In 1946, incidents which followed the fall of Ambon became the subject of one of the largest ever war crimes trials and 93 Japanese personnel were tried by an Australian military tribunal at Ambon.

    Rear Admiral Koichiro Hatakeyama was found to have ordered the Laha massacres, however he died before he could be tried. Commander Kunito Hatakeyama, who was in direct command of the massacres, was sentenced to execution by hanging, while another officer, Lieutenant Kenichi Nakagawa, was sentenced to 20 years imprisonment.

    And don't forget the sex slave camps.

    I've spent a good part of my life trying to get my grandad to talk about the war with me. After serving in Europe and coming out to Australia with my nan, he enlisted again as an air serviceman, only to be caught in New Guinea and escape.
    To this day he hates all Japanese with a passion. Hence his horror when his daughter, my mum, began learning Judo and then later when I started learning Karate, etc, etc...

    Thinking about it, actually, yeah, he would have a huge problem with anyone wearing that symbol. But I'm distanced from it, as is Chan Sung Jung, all of us who didn't personally live through those times and events are. So perhaps he can say that it upsets him to see the surviving generation being offened by this, but he has no validity in my opinion to directly claim this for himself.
  14. Gone

    Gone Guest

    Yes, well, non-combatants and total innocents on all sides were considered a threat simply and mainly only due to their ethnicity (and they make a very clear point of that in some of the old news articles and memorial plates, etc). It kind of makes sense when you consider the quote "guerrillas are fish that swim in the sea of people" (or however it goes) even though that is a nasty way of thinking.

    Do any servicemen here believe that the average Afghani isn't a threat to you just because you say you are there to hunt the Taliban or so on?

    And on the flipside, do the average Afghani not see you foreign soldiers as a threat to themselves just because they are not members of insurgent groups?

    What would you do in their situation, or in a very similar situation?
  15. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    Would you say the same thing to a Jewish person against someone wearing a swastika?
  16. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    I would love to see those news articles you're talking about. Have any links?
  17. Dave76

    Dave76 Deheuol Gwyn Dragon

    Yes. I have actually.
    They should be honest enough to admit that what happened didn't affect them directly, so stop claiming that it does. That drives me nuts!
    Indirectly, through parents and or grandparents, etc, etc.....yes, but not directly.
    "So get over yourself allready, because it's not about you!" , is what I said to one such person from memory.
    I haven't seen or heard of anything that changes that in my opinion.

    Edit - Just for the record, my nan was a jewish german.
  18. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Well, yes mostly. What is considered offensive is subjective, but certainly can be influenced by someone else's sensitivity. I'm empathetic to a degree, but I'll never say "X has no right to show Y because Z finds it offensive". I'll look at the bigger picture, and for me (again subjective) a person's intent means a lot as anything can be considered offensive by someone somewhere. I'm also not giving everyone a free pass to be an a-hole and flaunt what could be commonly considered offensive simply because they want to offend. Yes, it's a free country and they may be free to do so, but anyone is also free to be offended and act on that and accept their consequences for doing so. In other words, if someone's intent is to push emotional buttons then they better be prepared for empassioned responses that may include the physical expression of the offended person's anxiety.
  19. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    Bottom line. GSP didn't wear this symbol to purposefully offend anyone. If he continues to wear the symbol he risks offending many of his fans. As was said the wearing of the traditional Japanese flag is fine. But to continue to wear a military flag after being enlightened to what it means to many of his fans would be very disappointing and rather blatantly offensive.
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  20. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    Intent is what we should be looking for, I totally agree. Why take offense at someone who isn't intending it? I have much better things to do in my life then hunt for imaginary slights.

    I agree with the Korean Zombies reference to the swastika, it does help us westerners get a better idea of the meaning to HIM, but unfortunately, if he has to explain it, maybe it isn't all that bad? Can we go around worrying about stepping on everyone's toes so much that we never get to express ourselves for fear of 'emotionally battering' someone? Any single person can be offended on any single day at some point in time for just about anything, depending on their history, right? Lets leave history in the past, and move forward, dammit.
    Vldz likes this.
  21. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    Don't get me started on modern man paying for past transgressions on specific races/cultures! Slavery and native American issues come to mind.... It is good we remember where we, as a specific American history, come from, but why are we still talking about the past? Nobody in my family tree owned a slave, nor did we cheat the natives out of their land, and I do not know anyone who was even alive and suffering from either of those actual issues, not the back lash, but it seems to come up constantly. I think the problem is that others don't see you coming from that past, you only think they do.
    Vldz likes this.

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