Discussion in 'Mixed Martial Arts' started by The Lion, Oct 30, 2013.
This animation made me laugh
haha "how do you know it works, because it does its reality based"
a lot of truths in the clip , though reality based systems have there place I always say if you come from a "sports" combat background and combine it with a reality based system you open up so many possibilities, Your real timing and conditioning will come through from the fighting and the reality system helps you to disable,subdue etc
its a good combo, but like ive said a million times on here if you cant do it in real time then you cant do it
I agree i believe my wc system has it down as a way of reality based self defence well it covers my needs relating to my stature. I was raised on muay thai for 3 years as a teenager and i have used it in reality and sparring so the combat element of Muay Thai has greatly influenced the way i do Wing Chun and my beliefs surrounding it.
It's awesome to train bjj because it gives me that combat based mentality a little more than wc does.
This video made a huge mistake. it completely misrepresented what a "reality" based martial art is. Btw reality based sounds kind of silly, since reality has many depths, but I guess it's the new separation term. Reality arts are based off actual life and death bouts. Hence the martial(war) part of martial arts. Thus it is proven and tested over hundreds of years of war.
I agree, but disagree as well. If what we practiced came solely from war, from what was tested and proven, empty hand styles would have died out long ago. In reality, what we practice is civil arts, civilians trying to protect themselves. Especially since the advent of firearms, but even since swords and armor have come into use, empty hand has become outdated for military uses. If it were otherwise, there would have been legions of unarmed fighters during war, and that just isn't true. I would imagine that anyone who was in the military and had practiced empty hand would have an advantage against the average conscript, or probably most soldiers as well, but is that because his practice in helps him, or is it just his dedication to fighting arts, thereby strengthening his body and making him quicker has made him overall better? Of course, once wars were fought with guns, and vehicles, the scenery changed too much to even compare with empty hand anymore. It didn't matter how strong or fast you were, guns trumped it.
The strength in Martial Arts is only limited by the user. In my style I learn to use and disarm modern weapons. When the arts were created their was no need to learn to disarm guns since they did not exist and when they guns invented, competent schools taught at least basic use and how to defeat it armed and unarmed. Guns did not always trump. Strategy trumped b/c not knowing something is coming makes it impossible to shoot, not every one in Vietnam killed with guns but they did beat America9granted we did not just bomb them). Example: Now you see the enemy and they are a good distance away does not guarantee a win and being close definitely lowers your chances at winning. I have had a shotgun and knives pulled on me and disarmed them and won.
The chances of you disarming an armed opponent is actually quite low. But the actual discussion is martial arts being used in war. Just go read the histories of various martial art, see how most of them came from times when they weren't allowed to carry weapons by their own governments or invading forces. That is much different than armed forces. The US military only trains in a few techniques in their normal training, and their motto on unarmed combat is it is only useful as a holding until your friends come with weapons, or his. Make no mistake, the military does not believe that empty hand is superior to any weapon. Now, there are military units that do train in empty hand more, but that is for special situations, not for everyday war. I'm pretty sure someone who trained in guns for 1000 hours will beat anyone who has trained in boxing for 1000 hours. I just want to re-iterate my point....
No martial art has been proven and tested over hundreds of years of war.
Disarming sucks. I have had to disarm people before it is a terrifying experience, a handgun, a few knives, a pipe...
Guns are scary but if they are close enough to grab and the person isn't protecting the weapon disarming isn't that difficult. If the person knows how to hold the gun for combat though a d has been properly trained, your dead.
Knife is just ugly in anyone's hand, everybody knows how to use one with next to no training, those that have training it's even worse.
Now visualize trying to disarm someone, a highly trained soldier, in the middle of a fire fight!
Closest thing that I had to do to that was a British soldier that brought an expandable baton into a bar fight... He cracked open a couple heads before I was able to disarm him.
Just throwing in a couple thoughts. ALL combat/fight situational base Guidelines are Mentality, Environment, and Statistical Probability. The Modifiers are Knowledge, Training, Tools and Experience. None of which can guarantee victory.
It's actually very possible to disarm and armed opponent. Happens more than you think. Guns, Knives, whatever. In a fire fight disarming a highly trained soldier really depends on the above topics. While most martial artists are really do practice "Civil Arts" in the states. Because the majority of practitioners are "Part Timers". It's a Workout, Hobby, Confidence Builder, Which for the most part can be a double edged sword. They can be effective against a bully or some clod at a bar. But, against a "combatant" their chances of victory diminish drastically.
A combatant or "militarized fighter" can vary. For the most part Army, Airforce, Coast Guard,and the Navy have a basic set of techniques at their disposal. By "general" classification, Army is for Mass Operations, Airforce for Air Support/Strategic Operations (obviously), Coast Guard for Patrol/Rescue and Navy for Multiple Tactical/Strategic Response. The National Guard and Reserves reflect their respective counterparts. However their Defense Tactics (PC for Hand To Hand) should not be under estimated.
However, Special Divisions and Marines explore a wider variety of hand to hand combat. Including Disarm & Disable techniques to counteract an Armed opponent on the battlefield. In many situations these combatants opt for their knives or spades (like during trench warfare in the past) over their gun. Sometimes its means collapsing a kidney or snapping a neck. And with the traditional battlefield becoming obsolete in favor of special teams & urban combat. Hand to Hand is alive and well in the military.
I do not do "civil arts". I train and teach to destroy and how to "dial it back". I train in Martial Arts.
Eric I think it also depends on the unit as M.o.N mentions and country, the martial art average ability as a general rule in eastern countries is of a higher standard than in the western world due to the fact that martial arts in places like Korea are part of the school curriculum and are as common as football(american) or football (global), they also have conscription so all 18 year old's enter the military for 2 years, so many 18 year olds have black belts as a norm before they even get military training, whereby in western world only some would be the same level as a norm before military service, Special forces training takes 5 years. so hand to hand in certain situations as you mention would be more prevalent for someone who has spent his whole life training in martial arts versus someone who has had lets say 18 months in it
Good point. There are 'combatives' in the US military, but it is not part of the regular training. You can certainly train more if you wish, though.
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