Discussion in 'Self Defense' started by SifuPhil, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    I'm putting this in Self-Defense even though it doesn't strictly qualify as such ...

    What are your thoughts on revenge?

    And I'm keeping it simple just to get a good spectrum of responses ...
  3. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    Revenge is fine, as long it is veiled in justice. :)
    vote4pedro, Dave76 and RJ Clark like this.
  4. Ben

    Ben Master

    I was bullied a lot through high-school to the point of suicidal thoughts. When me and my girlfriend and her little brother were walking back to her place on our one month anniversary, the "leader" of these bullies drove past us and shouted out my name. I don't know if he was greeting or goading me and I don't really care. I can tell you right now, when I'm angry I would love nothing more than to practice on him. But I can't. Revenge is not the way to justice, it's only the way to make you become what you hate. If I tortured that guy like he tortured me, how could I truly call myself a good person? The only peace there is, is in getting over the past and moving forward.

    Having said that, if someone hurt my family of gf in some way, if they crossed my path, they wouldn't be walking for a while. I can take anything anyone can throw at me, but no-one touches my family or gf and gets away with it.
    Mark Goss and Locutus like this.
  5. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Great post! Only thing I will add to the above is:
    Karma is man-made. Act like an a-hole to enough people and eventually there will be repercussions, and rightly so.
  6. Gone

    Gone Guest

    I am, so far, psychologically incapable of attacking a person first. They have to strike me or do something to someone who I am close to for me to get rough. So, revenge is not a tactic that works well with me.
  7. dmach

    dmach Martial Archivest

    Revenge is a very human concept. We are all capable of it, its just that we have different "limits" or how far we have to be pushed before we become The Punisher. Like Red Australian, I will not go out looking for trouble, but one of my motivations for training in the Martial Arts is to make the act of attacking me or my loved ones a very bad idea.

    If I may retell a parable... My Father, when he was a young bloke, was once jumped by three guys, they ended up putting him in hospital. After he got out and was mended, he then set about paying these three guys a visit - one at a time. Now bear in mind that this was the 60's in a small European town, everyone knew what happened, but because everyone knew the story, when these guys started turning up all battered, bruised and generally messed up, people just turned a blind eye.

    This was obviously an act of revenge and given that Dad had to wait till he had recovered from the initial attack, it can be argued that it was served cold. This could be looked at two ways. Dad could very well have been arrested and probably gained a reputation as some kind of malicious psycho, or Dad sent the message out of "Don't F#$K with me". Either way the matter ended then and no one had a go at him again.

    Personally, I am not capable of seeking revenge per se - as in I will not go out and orchestrate someone's downfall, like in the TV series Revenge, thats too much effort in causing events to happen while covering your tracks. I'm not that Machievellian. Having said that, if someone has wronged me and an opportunity presents itself to shall we say, give karma a helping hand, I won't pass it up.
    RJ Clark likes this.
  8. Void_Karateka

    Void_Karateka Pauper Karateka

    I think all martial artists practice revenge. We all train to instinctively respond to a situation or external stimulus that will or is directly affecting us. Punching someone in the jaw because they just took a swing at you is revenge etc.

    Seeking revenge after someone beat you up? I think that's fine also. In fact if as a martial artist you're able to go back and beat the guy that beat you before, does that not mean you've a clear indication that you exceeded the you that was beaten before?
    RJ Clark likes this.
  9. Mark Goss

    Mark Goss Initiate

    I think revenge is cancer of the soul.
    We train to learn to harness our desires and the best amongst us learns absolute control because we know just how much damage we can do to another human being.... so our strength is reflected in doing nothing - unless we are faced with imminent death or great harm to a loved one who may be incapable of defending themselves.
    There should be no need to even consider revenge, as measured retaliation as described above, should be dealt out swiftly with the consequences merely accepted after the fact. Anything less serious does not require the measured action of a true practitioner of Budo.
    Judah and JesterX like this.
  10. karate is about keeping up they dont believe in revenge.....not so much
    samurai believe in revenge but planned out and honorable.......kill the evil of one person to spare many

    me....yeah i wuld do revenge all right......when yu feel the ignorance and evil towards yu....sometimes there must be devastating consequences
  11. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Justice, most often thru vengeance, has been a consistent theme and integral to Budo. What is one of the most famous stories of samurai honor is the tale of the 47 Ronin, which was a story of revenge that took them almost two years of planning and work to come to fruition. Honor often demands revenge. It's a warrior who can persevere and pursue it when it isn't easy and gratifyingly dealt out immediately. It's rather amusing that the modern interpretation for a "true" warrior is now a philosophical pacifist pussy (pardon the language but the alliteration and descriptive flows well with it).
    The10man, SifuPhil and Semper Gumby like this.
  12. Semper Gumby

    Semper Gumby Disciple

    RJ, I think I had read about or saw the Ronin story on tv. It is an interesting story. Their leader was killed, they waited for the guys guard to drop (2 years). they split up and got normal jobs, some pretended that they were drunks. Than they raided the guys place and killed him. After their revenge was completed they turned them selves in to the authorities, and killed them selves.
    RJ Clark likes this.
  13. Dave76

    Dave76 Deheuol Gwyn Dragon

    Sifu Phils fishing again;)

    This thread will resolve about as much as the death penalty or gun laws threads......i.e - nothing!

    Each to their own.......unless yours fucks with mine and I have to hurt you:D
  14. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Sometime there's a fine line between picking good discussion points because of the polarizing effect of certain topics and troll-like fishing. I think he's firmly on the good discussion point side this time...(y)
    dmach and SifuPhil like this.
  15. Dave76

    Dave76 Deheuol Gwyn Dragon

    Why can I hear someone going mwhahahaha just now:unsure:
    SifuPhil, Locutus and RJ Clark like this.
  16. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    [Metro Man crashes into the observatory, but finds no one present]
    Megamind: [from projector] Over here, old friend! In case you've noticed, you've fallen right into my trap!
    Metro Man: You can't trap justice! It's an idea, a BELIEF!
    Megamind: Even the most heartfelt belief can get corroded over time!
    Metro Man: Justice is a non-corrosive metal!
    Megamind: But metals can be melted, by the heat of revanche!
    Metro Man: It's REVENGE, and it's best served cold!
    Megamind: But it can be easily reheated, in the microwave of evil!
    Metro Man: Well, I think your warranty's about to expire!
    Megamind: Maybe I got an extended warranty!
    Metro Man: Warranties are invalid, if used beyond their intended purpose!
    Roxanne Ritchi: [exasperated] Girls, girls, you're both pretty! Can I go home now?
    Eric Dufurrena likes this.
  17. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    :ROFLMAO: I will find a way to use this in a conversation one day...
    The10man and Caneman like this.
  18. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    Will Ferrell has some great movie quotes... one of the favorites I use...
    When someone is being a a jerk/unkind/etc... think it was from Elf...
    "You're fun!"
  19. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

  20. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    There is a fine, invisible even, line between revenge and justice, and the problem is you can't really tell the difference unless you can read someones mind! It is all about intent. I don't really think seal team six was in for revenge, not really, especially since OBL didn't pull the trigger, so to speak, he only had the leading hand in it. Revenge is much more personal, methinks.

    Also, if someone attacks you and you cripple them immediatly, there is no revenge there at all, just defense and justice. Moral of the story, strike fast, strike hard, strike again!
    dmach, SifuPhil and Mr.Bond like this.
  21. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    Mwahahahahahahahaha ...

    The reason this topic came to mind is because of a similar thread on a religion & spirituality forum that I'm a member of. Now on THAT forum the focus is of course religious, so the majority of answers given were along the lines of "God is the only one who can seek revenge".

    The problem with that is that I'm not religious, at least not in the sense that those members are. So it left me wanting.

    One person gave me quite a debate. Their points were that in taking vengeance I was contributing to the violence of the world, that I had no right to take the law into my own hands, that I might attack the wrong person, that revenge never ends, and that I should strive toward peace, love and understanding.

    I promptly brought up the somewhat fantastical example of one's family being murdered in front of one's eyes. The law can't find the perp and essentially stops looking, but I know who he is and where he hangs out. I am ending the violence by taking him out, said I; I have every right to take the law in my own hands when it fails me; I know I won't be attacking the wrong person ("Give me credit for having SOME skills", I believe I replied); revenge will end when I take him out, and as for peace, love and Pop-Tart-shitting unicorns, hey, HE brought it on himself.

    My debater refused to accept my POV, which is fine with me. I left it at "God forbid this ever actually happens to you, your mind-set will probably change" ...

    Good bunch of replies here, folks!
    Charlay Atkins and Dave76 like this.

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