Teach a kung fu guy what it means to be a Krav Maga guy.

Discussion in 'Krav Maga' started by Dagon Akujin, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Dagon Akujin

    Dagon Akujin Jimmy Rustler

    I'll take anything that students can share as well (how long have you been training in it though?). All of the Krav Maga guys I've met have done, maybe at most a month of classes, and then talk about how unstoppable they are because of their.... "real" one month of training.
  2. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    I can let you know what I have experienced of Krav Maga so this is my opinion:censored: , It is a combat ready system that is based on surviving chaos everything they do is under pressure so that you can be calm under pressure, not a bad idea for what is is designed for as was mentioned earlier.

    All the Krav instructors here that I know all have backgrounds in other martial arts first(Muaythai or TKD or hapkido) and then have gone to Israel to train with the Military guys to get certification in Krav with regards to disarming etc,

    In terms of average person effectiveness I think it has benefits due to the nature of being aware calm under pressure, specific area strikes groin etc and maximum damage BUT:cautious: against a trained striker its very difficult for your average krav person to pull off some of the Krav moves at full speed when a striker is not throwing arcing punches and half speed kicks(There is a Krav class straight after my muay thai class) so we spar together sometimes, It seems sloppy at times with limited technique more a barrage of punches etc than technical hard strikes,

    now in terms of soldiers and especially proper hand to hand proponents Krav would be devastating as are many other military systems from Russia,US,Korea,Phillipines etc but i believe they are most beneficial when you have a technical base to work off so previous martial art training really helps to clean up the chaos .

    this is my respectful opinion
    Bonnell74 likes this.
  3. Bonnell74

    Bonnell74 Disciple

    That is a very good answer DeeD. I have been wondering the same things about Krav Maga because I am thinking about going to a place to train in it. I have done a couple years of Kenpo, a year or so of Aikido, and now have been doing Escrima for a little over a year. I may join simply because the place is close to me and I cannot afford to drive to my Escrima classes anymore, so I only get to train maybe once a week at another students house close to me.

    I went to Barnes and Noble the other day and picked up a Krav Maga book and found it very interesting. Bas Rutten wrote the forward in the book and spoke very highly of the system, which is always good to have someone of that caliber give such a good critique. The book really talked about the philosophy and the curriculum through the belts, as opposed to being a "how to" guide. It makes sense though. The way they train is to survive in the real world, which are things like counter striking as you block, and striking points that actually hurt the person, and staying off the ground as best you can. As you go up in rank, they teach the more technical side of grappling and throwing and all that fun stuff. I think that logically it makes sense as 100 percent of the time someone attacks you or your family you are on your feet, so learning how to stop an attacker starts there. Not to mention the concept of multiple attackers and weapons defense are something that they train from the get go. I also went to watch a class last week and it was very full of energy and had interesting ideas for training. They were doing a multiple attacker training drill and it was pretty good from what I saw. Anyway, thanks for the feedback and at this point, the only thing I have left to do is to try it for myself when I get the money together.
  4. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    I think that is probably the best way is to see for yourself, go take some classes you have previous experience in other martial arts so its possible that some of the moves could be extensions of principles you are proficient in. Bas Rutten is a machine and a huge advocate for "real fighting" The highly trained guys are special forces level and can do serious damage,
    I loved multiple attacker drills during Teuk Gong even in Muay thai we have gone with sparring multiple opponents always a "fun" experience going for the one and getting clipped by a cheap shot from the other :LOL:
    I attached a video of a guy I came across as you can see he has some form of traditional base at the beginning of the video.

    Let me know how it goes (y)

    Bonnell74 likes this.
  5. Dagon Akujin

    Dagon Akujin Jimmy Rustler

    That's still a whole lot of rather compliant ukes who are overreaching and have their posture turned away. I mean, it's high energy and cool and all, but it really doesn't say anything about KM because it's just some neat-0 Judo moves, done in a way to look neat (I've known some top-of-the-world Judo players, and their things are a lot closer, a lot tighter, a lot more evil, and a lot less flashy). All the jumping/flying moves (1:28, 4:08) and sneak-under-leg-pulls are just silly. And a lot of what is in there assumes that the tori is actually Sub-Zero, because the ukes seem to freeze for Ultra-Combos a lot.

    The uke totally jumps at 2:04. :p LOL.
    2:27, people do not try to stab you like this unless you are a SWF in a movie.
    The base-leg kick at 2:38 is totally sweet, but it's still a set-up.
    Jumping uke at 2:41.
    3:24??? Did he just double-spin kick TWO people over?

    And did he just do one of those fake throat tears at 1:57?!?!?

    Anyway though, I don't see anything that is accessible to "average Joe", and isn't that the point of KM? I just see a lot of high-energy Judo.
  6. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    Dagon, I will answer your questions tomorrow....Yes, that is not KM. KM is simple and to the point.

    In reality, this demo violates many of the KM techniques.

    I am not saying that this guy does not do some fancy stuff, but fancy stuff is not what KM is about, KM is about simple stuff that works.

    Peace, brother!
  7. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    definately agree thats why i mentioned he has a traditional base, yes it is staged it was for demonstration purposes,

    all military system are based on simplification so that its close precise and too the point in shortest amount of time, just thought it was a fun video :ninja:
  8. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    KM is BS (Humor)
  9. Dagon Akujin

    Dagon Akujin Jimmy Rustler

    Still waiting:


    1. What makes good KM good? What makes bad KM bad?
    2. Is most KM training just RBSD junk? I find RBSD to be total crap, because it is setting up fake "situations" and teaching "moves" that will not always work if the situation is changed a tiny bit. Most of the videos posted thus-far have been RBSD territory. It's the whole "Grab my wrist... no not that way... no with the other hand... no do it this way or this isn't going to work." How much of KM gets away from "roleplay" moves? (The "flow" drills get away from this, and I'm curious about how these work and what is taught with them).
    3. How does KM make things accessable for a smaller/weaker person to defeat (or escape from) a larger/stronger attacker? What are the "answers" it gives to make things work? If these are learning different "moves", then I'd say things are in dangerous territory because moves are meaningless (one of the books talked about "techniques" as only a starting-point, but meaningless in the end, which I believe is good).
    4. Do you have an example of something that works for someone who is small? And do you have an explanation of the how and why, and how KM teaches that how and why?
    5. How is explosive power trained?
    6. How do people train for the emotional/psychological stuff? That is interesting, because a conversation about it with students is pointless, so I'm curious what KM does for training it.
    7. You guys say you only need minimal practice and review???: one of the dangers of RBSD is that people do something 10 times, then think it will work whenever they need it. If you look at say, BJJ training, the difference between a bluebelt and a blackbelt is NOT how many moves they know-- it's how well they apply the same moves. Same with Judo (where many competitors will practice not 50 different techniques for a competition, but instead just focus on getting really really good at two or three). How do people get really good at something so that it will work no matter what?
    8. Do you guys considered boxing and wrestling to be Martial Arts? Because if you think that it's belts, gis, etc. that make a "martial art" then I'd say my Kung Fu school is less martial art than KM because KM has belts.
    9. I know you guys do fitness work, because that will help anyone in any situation. Do you do anything with posture, body awareness, hip position, energy transference, or anything else that helps anybody with any situation?
  10. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

  11. Dagon Akujin

    Dagon Akujin Jimmy Rustler

    It is considered a very rude thing to always answer questions with "I'm not going to answer that so you should go read this book instead."

    Also, that thing answers zero of my questions.
  12. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    See am I not going to answer you because nothing I write will be enough.

    This is a great document which I enjoyed reading and therefore, I shared it with the group.

    So, from now on, I will just ignore you.
  13. Dagon Akujin

    Dagon Akujin Jimmy Rustler

    Nothing you witten has been enough yet because you haven't written anything.

    All you keep doing is linking to 110 page documents or entire books you haven't read but that you expect everyone else to read. You still have answered nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

    I'm starting to believe you don't know anything about Krav Maga other than thier ridiculous marketting BS.

    Still you have answered NOTHING. So thanks for simply proving that your knowledge of KM is zero.

  14. Dagon Akujin

    Dagon Akujin Jimmy Rustler

    Watch this Bond. I'll show you how this is supposed to be done:

    There is no difference. It's all the same.
    It's all based on RSBD. It's all the same. Real Krav Maga'ers are just LARPing.
    It never works for smaller/weaker people except in the books and on YouTube. Krav Maga teaches that smaller people should just give up and be ready to be violated appropriately.
    Krav Maga doesn't work for someone who is small or anybody else for that matter.
    It isn't at all.
    They only talk about it and how great it would be, and then KM students read about it in books and on wikipedia.
    Krav Maga is not going to work for anyone, so practicing it a lot doesn't matter.
    Krav Maga considers everyone that isn't Krav Maga to be "martial arts BS". Only Krav Maga is unique according to Krav Maga'ers.
    Nope. Krav Maga just yells a lot and pretends to be extra violent so that suburbanites think they are doing something cool. It's all marketing with no basis on reality.

    That's how you answer questions Bond. I'm sorry to hear that you don't realize this.
  15. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    again just my opinion

    I dont really like Krav Maga in general seems uncontrolled to me which is what many Krav people would agree with because that is what they are "training for", Ive had opportunity to train with and spar against guys that are krav practitioners and have never done any other type of martial art etc. timing against a striker is obviously off, ive never seen them train at full speed either which is what we have to do in teukgong moosul but in saying that as Ive mentioned previously if you have a base in a striking martial art and then do something in a military system i think this a a good combo as you are already aware of distance movement striking etc and this gives you more options when you are striking or defending. I have trained in muay thai and teukgong(korean military art) but muay thai was my base so it was easy to understand the mechanics for some of the moves if you know what I mean,

    BUT........................ like any martial art including those that I do if you train like a pansy you will not be able to effectively pull of an attack, It drives me nuts we have people that kick pads etc at 10% spar like they are playing touches. If u want to be good in anything u need to go and push yourself to be better train at full speed and learn from people better than you,and if you dont want to be hit or hit in a martial art go and do tai chi (no offence tai chi people) but you get what im saying so i dont think its just a krav or rbsd scenario I think this is true for most martial arts
    Dagon Akujin likes this.
  16. Franco

    Franco BUDO

    I just found a KM studio down my way and the guy tells me is $140 a MO including my military discount they train Monday to Friday , I know is a realistic combat system but economics are also realistic I have a Tang Soo Do place around the corner for $75 a month Mon to Fri and also theres a BJJ club that is offering 30 days free trial Mon to Thursday. Don't know what the BJJ guy is going to charge. What would you guys do?
  17. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    Hmmm, that is an difficult choice. No matter what, I would try the BJJ for a month, then try to see if the other guys offer some sort of trial period. Most important thing to me is to find people you get along with, or you won't go at all! All other things considered, I would suggest BJJ (this coming from a guy who has a 3rd dan in Tang Soo Do and a 1st dan in a system that includes Krav Maga and BJJ) because it is a game changer for one on one combat, and if you don't have any grappling or wrestling experience, knowing how to defend against it would help a lot versus many opponents. Then all you need to do is get a bag or something that you can punch, and you are good to go!
  18. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    Yea I agree try the 30 day free BJJ , Maybe try out a class at the KM and the TSD and see which one fits more with your needs and personality, Im a predominant striker(muay thai) but am also testing for my 2nd dan in a hybrid art so I also see the benefit in the ground aspect but I wouldn't discount the striking, So if you can do both otherwise I would go hybrid
    Eric Dufurrena likes this.
  19. Sundown

    Sundown Initiate

    Haha, you gotta love that a Wing Chun guy started this thread to make fun of KM. It's like a clown wearing funny shoes while making fun of another clown because he's wearing funny shoes.

    Do the BJJ, at least you might sort-of learn how to fight.
  20. Kuyaken

    Kuyaken Karate for the streets not just for trophies

    WOW, this a pro BJJ fraternity here. I think BJJ is a really good style but its not perfect and has issues just like every other art. Wouldn't a style like Daito Juku (even teaches headbuts etc) or Japanese/Kempo Jujitsu style be better suited where striking and "stand-up" is also practiced?

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