Teach a kung fu guy what it means to be a Krav Maga guy.

Discussion in 'Krav Maga' started by Dagon Akujin, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    The reason I hopped on the BJJ train many years ago was because of a few reasons. The first is that I have been practicing striking since '81, and have always been at least decent, if not at times pretty good. Then I sparred a guy who trained in BJJ, and he was able to dismantle me, no contest. Now, I'm not saying it is the end all be all of martial arts, but it has several things going for it. First is, if you become decently skilled at it (lets say one year of training, 3-4 times a week) you would be able to take down and control, or submit, an actual attacker, without harming him. Think about that for a second, as that is pretty dang cool. The reason is because the techniques you need to start in are actually pretty simple, and very effective against someone who is untrained in the defense of said techniques, and when you practice, you practice LIVE. No one steps, no Kata, but nearly full force and speed, with full resistance. The simulates real combat better than probably anything else. If you can find a school that teaches some sort of striking, like Muay Thai, Karate, or even Krav Maga, then you have a well rounded system.

    By the way, I classify Krav Maga as quite different that Muay Thai or Karate. KM is a self defense art, with a lot of techniques for escaping holds and such, but also includes striking. Muay Thai and Karate, I feel, are more fighting arts, with less emphasis on survival and defense then the ability to deliver a strong punch or kick effectively. I am not saying that one is more effective than the other, but there is a subtle distinction.
  2. Kuyaken

    Kuyaken Karate for the streets not just for trophies

    Understood, its very effective one on one, but when you're on the ground with one guy and his mate comes along and dropkicks you in the head.

    Many grappers I talk with agree that you only go to the ground if your standup fails.. I'm not sold on the fighting on your back stuff, Judo or Lancashire Catch wrestling would be my chosen grappling art.

    Now concider the Kata you practiced and Taught blindly just to pass each belt. Lets take Naihanchi/Tekki Shodan / Chodan now take the Kata and lie on your back, perfom the kata and you get most of what you need including Shrimping, full/half guard, locks and chokes of various types. Need I say anymore, Karate AND Kung Fu have been totally misunderstood for over 100 years
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
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  3. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    The biggest benefit from training in grappling is learning the defense. You better believe in a multiple aggressor scenario, someone is going to try to take you down. My defense has increased a hundredfold since starting grappling. If you don't have defense vs grappling, it won't matter how many guys you have, even an untrained guy will be able to best you, neutralizing you stand up, and making the fight go down to his level, so to speak.

    I have always known that various defenses and such exist within the traditional arts, and I worked with a lot of my instructors and fellow practitioners to explore the 'hidden' arts within, but the problem is, on that note, the ambiguity actually works against them in an actual self defense situation. I spent 2 years, in preparation for my 3rd dan in Tang Soo Do, breaking down and evaluating Kong Sang Koon for all its nuances and bunkai, but in the end I remember and use my Krav Maga defenses because we practice them against each other at a high speed and resistance. With the stress of multiple people attacking you.

    But consider what I said, the fact that grappling gets to use their techniques at full speed and power, with full resistance, is what separates it from other fighting arts. It is said that if you want to fight better, you need to fight. Other aspects will help, but the best, and only sure way to get better, is to directly practice as close to the intended result. For example, if you wanted to be a better sprinter, running 3 miles a day might help you, but not as much as sprinting. In fact, at your higher levels, running can interfere with sprinting, as you are training the wrong muscles, and learning to pace yourself (pull your punches).

    I am not saying that the striking arts are inferior. I am explaining the benefits of BJJ. Ultimately, it is an individual decision, based on preferences at that particular time in your life. I had been doing striking arts for so long, I thought they were going to be the end all, until I realized just how limited my ground game was. Now, after training myself and teaching others, I have found that for effective self defense, and all other aspects being equal (teacher competence, student seriousness, etc) that Krav Maga is more effective quickest, followed by BJJ. The traditional striking arts are great for fighting, but it would take considerable time and effort, and probably multiple instructors (cross training) in order to maximize the self defense aspect of them.
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  4. Kuyaken

    Kuyaken Karate for the streets not just for trophies

    Yes, I agree with you 97%

    I think that its down to the style of Karate you practice. I'm Ashihara, originates from Kyokushin, and we do our stuff full on and at spead too.
    I did my grappling styles and I'm just not sold on them. Tang Soo Do was my first Karate style as an adult, Chil Sung Ee Ro Hyung is all I practice from it and my application you would expect to find in a Jujitsu class
    Eric Dufurrena likes this.
  5. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    I'm a striker at heart, too! When I am doing BJJ, I don't stay on my back, no matter what. I always move to superior position. I don't work from the guard much, mostly because my calves are too thick to have an adequate guard, and I have major difficulty pulling off the triangle.
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  6. Kuyaken

    Kuyaken Karate for the streets not just for trophies

    May I firstly say I am honoured to discuss this topic with you.

    I do think one should be skilled in both stand up AND grappling to be an allround skilled fighter/teacher/martial artist. I would suggest every Karate Kata is a means of effective grappling, take a look at some origins and look at San Shou Kuai Jiao (Chinese Fast wrestling) and Tai Chi Quan - one of the most explosive arts out there. I would refer to my thread about sports Karate as true Kara Te is all things to its practitioners, Funakoshi Sensei spent 9 years on the Naihanchi Series alone.
    The only thing I would use BJJ for is to show me what is already in my own style and kata
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  7. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    I guess what I am saying is that the arts themselves aren't incomplete, or lacking really, it is the way they are practiced. The beauty of BJJ is in the ability to practice it so close to actual combat. I would put any BJJ practitioner against any Tai Chi guy. Does this mean I think Tai Chi is worthless? Definitely not. I agree with you that a lot of the arts are deep, but you must also agree with me that the way BJJ trains is a superior way to train. San Shou itself is akin to MMA, itself being more 'sport' than traditional. Sport karate is indeed not as good as traditional karate, but that isn't because it is watered down or less traditional, it is because of the rules of the sport they try to excel at. Just because one is a sport, it doesn't necessarily discount its use as a style. In fact, depending on the rule set, the opposite could be true. Take point sparring, for instance. For any purpose other than accuracy and speed, it is pretty useless. If you spent your life trying to be the best point sparring guy around, you would be pretty good. But without the actual pressure cooker of combat, you wouldn't have developed the strength, or actual balance needed once you make full contact. You wouldn't be able to take a hit. If you put a guy who did nothing but point spar for 10 years, into the ring with a Muay Thai guy who has been fighting for 10 years, also, the Muay Thai guy will win. BJJ is different, though, as the way it is practiced, the way it is competed with, is directly applicable in combat. Funakoshi may have practiced kata for a long time, and may have been very good at it, but was he ever described as a great fighter? He was a great person, and teacher, and if your goal is to practice martial arts, then he was the best. I am not saying that studying the traditional way isn't without its merits. I am just saying that most of those merits aren't combat based, and they way they train might help in a combat situation, it just isn't as effective as it could be.
    Dave76 and MattCMMA like this.
  8. Franco

    Franco BUDO

    I don't know but it feels at the BJJ club like HS wrestling with a gi, just saying.
  9. Vidadi

    Vidadi www.jkd.az

    Here is some videos of our krav maga training I hope you like it. If you like our videos, please, subscribe to our youtube channel.

  10. Vidadi

    Vidadi www.jkd.az

    Krav Maga is Combat non sport MMA for Combatives & Self-Defense. It is not a martial art as kung fu styles, it is about modern tactics, techniques, combat psychology related to how survive (not to fight or win) in modern day realistic agressive physical confrontation. I hope you like one of my videos:

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