The debate of "pro" wrestlers (WWE ect.) becoming MMA fighters

Discussion in 'Mixed Martial Arts' started by Adam Crawshaw, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Adam Crawshaw

    Adam Crawshaw The Ripper

    i was reading through a few MMA forums and couldnt help but notice all the threads about ex pro wrestlers not being good enough for MMA in particular brock lesnar. I personally love the wwe and mma so like to see my fav stars making a go of both but the amount of adversity they face is unreal everyone expects you to fail and if you do well it gets blown out of proportion you get elevated to such a degree that if you do fail at some point they all say stuff like "I knew it was a fluke" i think regardless of your previous career if you love to fight you love to fight. Opinions? and are there any pro wrestlers you would like to see in MMA?
     
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  3. Gone

    Gone Guest

    Wrestling is very fun. Or at least it was in the 80's and 90's... Today the WWE/TNA just kills my boner in more ways than I care to count on. Some athletes might make a decent MMA fighter, like Goldberg, HHH, and Rob Van Dam.

    But seriously, wrestling is goofy and gimmicky, and men like Mick Foley/Mankind, The Undertaker, and Hulk Hogan ARE what it means to be an entertainment wrestler.

    If they can make the cross over, then I do not see the big deal. I think that Tank Abbott and Ken Shamrock used to be WWF/WWE/WCW/ECW didn't they?
     
  4. Hugh Jorgen

    Hugh Jorgen Initiate

    Regardless of how goofy and gimmicky pro wrestling is its still a skill that requires many months of training..Training and skills are what the MMA are supposed to be made of..I see no reason why Pro wrestlers cant make good in the MMA..just train more in those areas you are lacking
     
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  5. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    It's a bit of a false comparison. Pro-wrestlers will do well in MMA if they already have a legit background in Amateur Wrestling (Greco, Freestyle, Folkstyle), or Catch Wrestling which at one time was not at all uncommon but is now pretty rare. Also maybe they have a legit kickboxing/boxing/karate background but again this is not as common as it used to be (and frankly this is a more difficult transition because of take-down defence).

    If they don't have this background they have as much chance as anyone else with no fighting skills "transitioning" to MMA in just 1-2 years (i.e. they will blow through a few cans and then get crushed themselves, a la Lashley, Kimbo, et al). Most people need 3-4 years of MMA training to transition at least (and usually much more). We've seen some heavyweights do it faster but let's face it there is less talent in the Heavyweight division than almost any other division.

    Pro-wrestlers are athletic but so are lots of sportsmen and what's more they tend to be over-muscled. Unless you have a legit background apart from Pro-Wrestling, your Pro-Wrestling is useless in MMA except for getting some hype.
     
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  6. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    Almost all pro-wrestlers who transitioned had a legit background in Wrestling or Catch: Lesnar, Severn, Lashley, Sakuraba, etc

    Almost all other former pro-wrestlers fell flat on their face because they had no legit background. Tank and the Shamrocks as well as many others were MMA guys first and Pro-Wrestlers second.

    I have nothing against them coming across but unless they have legit experience or have spent over 4 years seriously mma training, they have little to no chance above crushing a few cans. Same with boxers.
     
  7. Gone

    Gone Guest

    Yeah, well it is for these points that I think it is going to be VERY difficult for pro-wrestlers to be MMA athletes.

    It is just totally different. Pro-wrestling has some bloody good moves that can be applied to MMA or other self defence situations (like a DDT or Cross-Face Chicken Wing) but the moves are big, bulky, and deliberate. We're talking chokeslams, tombstones, powerbombs, flying cross bodyslams, etc. They rarely flow into combination moves or into other attacks fluidly the way MMA athletes do. It's all big and showy. It will be very hard for an entertainment wrestler to become a MMA fighter because of that. It isn't just a new martial art moves set they have to learn. The entire mentality has to change as well.

    More often you actually see professional bodybuilders making the transition to being professional wrestlers. And more and more these days you see professional wrestlers making the transition into being professional actors in Hollywood or whatever (Hulk Hogan and the Rock being the most prominent.)

    Speaking of which.. I wouldn't mind knowing Rob Van Dams workout routine (martial arts, weights, and others)..
     
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  8. Asriel

    Asriel Disciple

    I think the problem most people have is that the pro wrestler guys always get chances at the expense of other, more deserving fighters. Brock for example, was given a title shot after 2 or 3 fights because of who he was. So long as these guys start at the bottom and work as hard as everyone else, I say good luck to them.
     
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  9. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    Red Australian, I hate to break it to you but all the moves you listed are fake moves and could not work in MMA; especially the DDT. The DDT is an utterly made up move and could not possibly be used in a real fight.

    It is true that a cross-face technique can be used to wear down and harry fighters but it is not a true submission and not basis for thinking that it could form the foundation of any real fighting. In truth, none of the moved you have listed are real fighting moves.

    You are correct though that nowadays fewer and fewer pro wrestlers come to pro wrestlers with legitimate backgrounds in Catch or Amateur and more and more are just bodybuilders.

    Asriel - you are right but I don't think this would happen anywhere but the heavyweight division where the talent pool is truly low. If Brock had spent years fighting the crappier heavyweights (the Struves, Rothwells, etc) I truly believe that he would have steamrolled them. He did have a legitimate wrestling background, which gave him a leap up in the same way that Ronda Rousey's Judo has. The Brock we saw the last two fights had the same stand-up weaknesses and still probably would have lost to Velasquez and Overeem, but was clearly not the same guy due to his illnesses. Having said that, almost all pro-wrestlers who transition are heavyweights because that sells pro-wrestling tickets to have huge guys and then said guys believe their size will carry them through into MMA.

    Regent St-Onge - You are quite right to suspect that most of these guys are not clean.
     
  10. Gone

    Gone Guest

    I've used the DDT in a real fight *shrugs*
     
  11. UK-Student

    UK-Student Disciple

    Red Australian. Not only do I not believe that this is true, n0-one on the forum who reads this will think that it is true.

    The DDT is a nonsensical move where you grab the opponent's head and spike it on the ground by falling back. It's a terrible move you fall to the floor and sacrifice your standing position to go to the ground to the bottom of side control which is recognised as one of the worst things you could possibly do in a fight, the most submissive and self-defeating position you can take (at least pull guard......). What's more, you can't guarentee that your opponent's head will even hit the floor. Even if it does, will it hit hard? It's a terrible risk for limited reward, the equivalent of a triple spinning kick in a real fight, except at least a spinning kick would help you maintain distance. It is possibly the worst thing you can do.

    Can someone name one fighting style anywhere in the world that considers a DDT type move as legit? No absolutely not. It is not a "Catch" move, it's show wrestling. It's fake. I think Jake the Snake invented it.

    Yes.... if you take someone down and accidentally bump your head on the floor it can hurt you (Gray Maynard did this in his first post-TUF fight) but this is a mistake. It is ridiculously difficult to intentionally spike an opponent's head on the ground, and what's more, is illegal in the unified MMA rules.
     
  12. Asriel

    Asriel Disciple

    That would make tombstones illegal :( anyone remember when undertaker tombstoned hulk onto a chair in the 80's?
     
  13. Gone

    Gone Guest

    The guy went to spear tackle me so I caught his head under my arm and fell through into a DDT. Fuck, yeah that's hard to imagine happening *airjerks*
     
  14. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Not sure what a DDT is because I am not a pro wrestling fan, but the description that Red Australian gives has happened to me (I was the one who caught the neck and pinned the head as I was tackled backwards and the guy tackling me KO'd himself). It has also happened in MMA. The fight I remember best was Mark Kerr's comeback fight where he KO'd himself:

     
  15. dmach

    dmach Martial Archivest

    I don't think that John Cena would be able to step out of the WWE ring and directly into the MMA cage without some serious re-skilling. Having said that, as far as their fitness, agility and over all athleticism, many of them would be able to make transition much quicker than most. Remember when it is all said and done - fake or not - a pro wrestler is essentially a stunt man, they know how to take a hit and they know how to take a fall.

    Imagine the Batista Bomb in the MMA cage? Ouchie! :nailbiting:
     
  16. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Well, Red Australian and Enkidu already covered this. Just keep in mind that some of the WWE moves are based on real techniques or potential chain of events (such as the DDT-type knockout when someone is driving in for a takedown) and just made bigger and more dramatic through a co-operating partner and practice.
    It's certainly illegal, but certainly not ridiculously difficult. Take a relatively simple throw such as kata garuma, which is essentially the same as a fireman's carry wrestling takedown. It would be extremely easy to spike him on top of his head, in particular because you have an arm locked up that would be on the "down" side of the throw. But I get where you're coming from about the WWE type stuff because most of it is so ludicrously over the top.
     
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  17. Gone

    Gone Guest

    This is a DDT. Quick, easy to remember, and simple to execute. It is a little risky because you could fracture the guys skull or break a neck bone or something. But it works and it hurts ALOT.



    There was nothing consensual or cooperative about it, either. I mean, it was a real fight and the guy already took a swing at me which he missed, so then he went for a tackle and I just grabbed him by the neck and fell back with his forward momentum.
     
  18. Kevin

    Kevin Admin Staff Member

    Most wrestlers have some sort of training in something else - be it boxing, kickboxing or wrestling or whatever. I imagine most of them will be starting from scratch when they transition from MMA but I don't see that being a major problem. Jon Jones, albeit a bit of a prodigy, had only done MMA for a few years before he won his first title.

    99% of wrestlers are great athletes. They are also hard working and dedicated to making it to the top. You don't reach the top of the wrestling world without sacrificing a lot. These are qualities which will help them make the transition to MMA.

    Say you take a professional athlete from any sport, regardless of whether it's baseball or football (soccer) and train them 6 hours a day, 6 days a week in MMA. After a few years many are going to get to the level where they can fight professionally. They're at the top of their profession for a reason. Now imagine taking someone from the wrestling world and giving them the same amount of training. They will already have been doing strength training and will at least have a good wrestling base so they should adapt quickly. I'm not saying they are going to be MMA superstars but I don't see how they couldn't at least reach level where they are doing fights for smaller shows and circuits etc. Obviously the guys who had a lot of wrestling experience before transitioning to WWE etc will be in a better position to transition to MMA but I don't think it stops the rest of them from making it.

    For me, it's more about these guys proven that they have the dedication to put in the hours to make it and less about how good they are at fighting for real currently.
     
  19. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Great post except for this. If all they've done is the WWE stuff, they do not have a wrestling base. They're simply good at choreography that also includes simulating wrestling.
     
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  20. Dpendleton

    Dpendleton Warrior Monk

    I think a lot of the wrestlers who trained with Stu Hart would do good because he trained them how to fight for real. Then they went on to learn how to wrestle from there. I know that Kid Kash won a couple of MMA fights and Lashley is not that bad even though he is like 7-2.
     
  21. Kevin

    Kevin Admin Staff Member

    Agreed. Sorry, I should have clarified. I mean a good wrestling base from school or college. A lot of the guys who are in WWE have real experience in wrestling.
     
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