Thoughts on the "SINE WAVE" as established by GM Choi Hong Hi in ITF.

Discussion in 'Taekwondo' started by Martialist, May 6, 2013.

  1. Caneman

    Caneman Test all things.

    RJ ...Uh? ...Huh?
    So, my comment was not that they even utilized a drop step, or falling step, they didn't... or I would have said that.
    They did just "drop in" as in they dropped about six inches and for the life of me... not sure if they were kicking, punching or what... but were moving in... ergo: dropped + in. Sorry, I can certainly see that the reference to context previous would direct that line of thinking, my bad.
    That is all.
    I only threw this up on the site... because it made me think about hypotheticals, and if they consistently were a "sine wave artist"... strategies and the like... and that it JUST HAPPENED.
    Like... what is the worst thing about most sweeps/throws... you place yourself momentarily in the same position to be swept/thrown.
    So in this case... they tried very hard to ram their face into my fist... LOL.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
    RJ Clark likes this.
  2. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    Don't you just hate it when they do that?
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  3. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Ahh, the timing on the post (right after mine) and then the wording left me with the impression that it was directed at me rather than a "just throwing this in the mix". Apologies for the misunderstanding.
    Caneman likes this.
  4. Anthony Hayward

    Anthony Hayward Initiate

    In ITF Taekwon-Do the sine-wave is only used during patterns and breaking. I would never use it for sparring or pure self defence...
    Yes, the sine-wave is used to developed more power by tapping into the physics field of gravity, however it is also used to take pressure of the muscles/ joints etc and to relax the body. Just like when we bend our body at the hips to touch our toes stretch. You should always relieve the pressure off the hips by bending the knees slightly as you come up.
    I have noticed where people have been saying that in ITF the hip twist is not used only the sine-wave. This is incorrect. A true practitioner of the ITF system will use both sine-wave and hip twist to generate power.
    When General Choi and his pioneers developed the art yes there was no sine wave evident. As you know Taekwon-Do has its roots to Karate.
    As the General's ideas developed so did his thoughts on how to increase power but also considered how to increase the age at which practitioners can still train in the art. He did this by changing the process during the movement to mimic the natural movement of the body. Hence sine-wave..
    That's what a lot of people don't get with it.
    They assume it is just to create more power... Sorry but it's not...
    I know I am not that old, 42, however I have been training in ITF Taekwon-do nearly my whole life and I don't have hip problems, I don't have any knee problems and I don't have any problems breaking 3 stacked boards with a knife-hand so as far as I am concerned it works for me and at the end of the day that's all that matters. I train for myself not for anyone else.

    There will always be this debate.. ITF practitioners will be for it and everyone else will be against it...
    However one thing that will never change is that history will always state that General Choi is the father of Taekwon-Do and sine-wave is Taekwon-Do.

  5. Anthony Hayward

    Anthony Hayward Initiate

    Yes true, as you say jumping off a 20 story building will give you more force on a target than just jumping off the ground... Physics has proven this hence the squaring of the speed 9.8m/s2... This however is in relation to a mass... It doesn't take into consideration this mass having muscles and tendons etc that also have energy and forces which start to work against this mass...
    Muscles extend and muscles contract...
    In the case of a low section block, it only takes a distance of approximately 1 foot for the arm to reach full speed (1 reason why in ITF Taekwon-Do we don't bring our blocking hand right back past our ears). Yes, bringing the blocking hand up past our ears contracts our muscles and creates like a spring. This will give an explosion in take off but once the hands get to near the waist it will start to slow down due to the line in which it is travelling. In ITF Taekwon-Do as I mentioned we start our "cross" near shoulder height and out a distance of approx. 1 shoulders width. This distance out, now takes a different line in which the technique is now travelling which relaxes the arm and shoulder muscles. The travelling distance now until when it makes contact with the target is only approx. 1 to 1 1/2 feet so the arm is travelling at it's maximum speed. That's when the revolving principle kicks in to step it up even further. This also relates to the muscles around the hips etc if you want to take into consideration hip twist, sine-wave etc.

    Try it for yourself... Take your hand up past your ears and block... Then try it at our "cross" position and see which seems faster... Bear in mind the arm is a fixed mass and this cannot change... F= MxA...

  6. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    That very much supports my statement of gravity not being able to help at fighting, thank you.

    By the way, I have been doing martial arts for 34 years NOT doing sine-wave or whatever, and I have never had bad knees back or anything. In fact, I've never broken a bone, even. So maybe sine works for you, or maybe it is coincidental. Ultimately though, as long as you are happy and learning all the time, it's all good!
  7. Mattktkd

    Mattktkd Initiate

    Okay I think I can answer some questions. I am a member on some other forums and have been training in Taekwondo for 12 years and hold the rank of 4th degree blackbelt. I am certified under the AAU in the USA and under Kukkiwon. I have trained under some of the best martial artist in the North East Unite States.

    I personally have always used sine wave in my practicing of taekwondo and I teach it to my students. I have no idea on where it originated from, but I have my own theory as to why we do it. I believe that the motion of the sine wave helps with breathing. As you being a move, lets say a middle punch in a front stance, as you love your back foot forward your whole body should rise as you take in your breath. As you step forward, execute the punch, and breath out your body will have the downward motion where you should execute a ki-hap. I personally think the sine wave motion also helps with power, but I could be completely wrong.

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