Turning the other cheek

Discussion in 'Striking Martial Arts' started by Vldz, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Vldz

    Vldz Warrior Monk

    Somewhere in the bible, it says that when someone slapped you on one cheek (assuming it connects), turn the other cheek (to be slapped...... again).

    The reality is, if someone really really wants to hurt you and try to slap you on your cheek and it connects really well, you will be knocked unconscious. (I am not lying, just see UFC, yes I know in the UFC they were aiming for the chin instead of cheek, but cheek slap with proper intent usually does smash the chin as well)

    In actuality, most roundhouse kick (with or without snap) and hook punches to the cheek are essentially "slap" done with either shin, instep, ball of the foot, or fist.

    So in the case of a proper slap, done by someone who knows that s/he is doing, with a proper intent, and assuming it actually connects, there is no way you can make a conscious decision let alone effort to turn the other cheek.
     
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  3. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    On the other hand it also writes an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. So if you were slapped on the cheek then you have every right to slap back. Not for Australians though, they aren't allowed :(
     
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  4. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    I think it was meant more as a metaphor, something along the lines of violence begets violence. Either way I can't take it as good advice especially when someone wants to hurt you. Offer them the other cheek (assuming you can) and they'll just hit you again ;)
     
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  5. Judah

    Judah fights in tights

    Eye for an eye is in the OLD testament bro, turn your cheek was jesus in the New Testament.

    If we live by "an eye for an eye" the whole world would be blind - Ghandi
     
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  6. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    That's why I'm more of a "head for an eye" guy, pretty much breaks up the tit-for-tat cycle. It was a rare thing that anyone chose or was able to choose to continue a violence begets violence path with me (more in my young & dumb days). Even taking my typical reaction and utilizing it as a metaphor it works quite well. When someone will pay a disproportionate price for harming/attempting to harm me or mine they tend to choose to NOT do that initial harm. Of course the only "problem" with my way is that you have to set at least one example so the rest will know what will happen.
     
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  7. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Exactly!
    But I think that's quite common, isn't it? That people will initially take a metaphor literally, yet then expand upon it as a metaphor/metaphorically. Often using slightly tenuous similitudes like the slap & roundhouse kick comparison:). X = <insert almost anything you want>
     
  8. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    The old testament is just as valid as the new one. Just ask the Jews :) However, going by your logic then the new testament is outdated and we all need to follow the quo-ran. Welcome to sharia law :eek::blackeye::troll:
     
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  9. the Barbarian

    the Barbarian Not Mr. Nice Guy

    You guys are trying to make "eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek" apply to self defense. Not going to work. "Eye for an eye" refers to justice, not revenge. Essentially let the punishment fit the crime. Our laws determine that. I think my nation, USA, does a pretty good job of that. Let's not bring death penalty into this.
    "Turn the other cheek" refers to forgiveness of transgressions, not pacifism. Its perfectly acceptable to defend yourself. To do otherwise would just be stupid. You forgive in order to not let hate take you further from God. Forgiveness does not exempt one from justice, though.
    It is not OK, anywhere in the bible to, to take the law into your own hands. And no, rebellion against tyranny is not taking law into your own hands. That's a whole other can of worms.
    Obviously these things will always be interpreted deferently by deferent folks. But if you look at it from an outside perspective, it my interpretation makes sense. I mean, there are plenty of things from the old testament not followed anymore by both Christians and Jews. Like stoning adulterers or making your wife sleep in a different room during her menstruation. So to say old/new testament is relevant/irrelevant is an ignorant thing to say.
     
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  10. TheWhiteTiger

    TheWhiteTiger Taoist Immortal

    Not saying you don't already know this Locutus, but for the benefit of any lurkers who don't...

    In Christian doctrine, the New Testament most certainly DOES REPLACE THE OLD TESTAMENT. The entire purpose of it is to redefine the beliefs of Judaism. So the Two commandments (Love your God above all others, Love your neighbour as yourself) take priority over the Ten Commandments. Turn the other cheek takes priority over an eye for an eye. For CHRISTIANS that is. Not for anyone else.

    It's also worth mentioning that the history of Christianity is a history of people who categorically did NOT turn the other cheek and were quite often the ones doing the slapping in the first place. In fact, anyone interested in Western MA's should probably research Christianity at length - the Christian knightly orders (such as the frequently mythologised Templars, or the medical / military / religious Order of St John [Knights Hospitalier]) took medieval western MA's to their highest level.

    As to the Koran being the most informative [I assume because it's the most recent] religious text - surely Scientology then? Anyone up for some Dianetics?

    As a side note, not a Christian or a practitioner of any religion. Open minded and sympathetic atheist who studied Philosophy and Religion at uni some years ago.
     
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  11. TheWhiteTiger

    TheWhiteTiger Taoist Immortal

    ...And incidentally, I would turn the other cheek.

    Not that my opponent would be in any situation to slap it with two broken arms and a ruptured testicle.
     
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  12. Vldz

    Vldz Warrior Monk

    In Australia, the rule is a lawsuit for an eye (or anything).
     
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  13. Vldz

    Vldz Warrior Monk

    How about a groin (2 eggs and 1 sausage) for an eye.
     
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  14. Gone

    Gone Guest

    You have to be ready to meet lethal force with lethal force.

    That is all I will say, despite what some bronze-age books insist (talmud, qui'ran, bible)
     
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  15. Vldz

    Vldz Warrior Monk

    100% agree. Although we have to always keep in mind, the context of the "lethal force", since all actions we take always have some legal consequences.

    Unfortunately, in where I live, the victims may also encounter legal lawsuit if they "retaliate too hard". ridiculous I know, but what can we do?
     
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  16. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    Also, what you consider lethal force may not be what others consider lethal force. Same as armchair referees always know better than the guy in the ring.
     
  17. Kevin Hall

    Kevin Hall Initiate

    Or non-action here. Home invader (known to Police) entered kitchen through a screen door waking the man and his wife who were sleeping. The exclamation "Who's there?" spooked the thief, who, in a mad dash to run, tripped over a seat and broke his arm. Claiming he was "attacked" the home owner was arrested for assault, fined and paid over $20,000 in damages to the Heroin addict.
    What he should have done, not called an ambulance as a good citizen would requiring Police involvement but throw the screaming idiot outside and lock the doors, then call Police saying there's a madman trying to break in!

    As far as "turning the other cheek", of course! Turning your head as you deliver an elbow (tate empi) to the opponent's face increases the power of the blow. Of course, make sure there are quite a few witness of the attack or there is no-one around.

     
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  18. The10man

    The10man Disciple

    A few quick comments: 1. If you were knocked out by the "slap" then fell on your face you would in effect be following the rule because you would quite literally be turning the other "cheek". :ROFLMAO: 2. Ghandi was quite wrong. In a world of an eye for an eye not everyone would be blind. There would be one guy left with one eye, and in the land of the blind the seeing man is king. :jimlad:3. The Barbarian expressed the way I see it quite nicely. (y) 4. The New Testament DID NOT replace the Old. " 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17-18 and those words are the ones written in red. Jesus brought mercy and grace and applies it to the Law, but it was not replaced nor removed. I kinda feel like "the religious nut" on here, but all I can give you is my word that I only talk about the subject of religion when someone brings it up. I have studied religions of the world in many settings, but unless asked i am more of a you do your thing I'll do mine kinda guy.
     
  19. Gone

    Gone Guest

    You have to be alive to be trialed and jailed.

    And you really have to be there at the time to know what happened and how it all happened.

    We train in martial arts so that we can recognize the level of threat and handle it accordingly. If one of you were to come back here and say you had to break a guys neck, then I would trust that you had to do that as the minimum level of response to preserve yourself.
     
  20. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    You might trust us but a prosecuter wouldn't.
     
  21. SifuPhil

    SifuPhil Lucky Cat Is Lucky

    I paid the price for defending myself in public - 3 months in County. In a just and fair system I would have been given a medal.

    The cheek/eye thing has been a topic of hot debate on my religion forums, so keep going, guys! :devil:
     
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