What's Your View on Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT)

Discussion in 'Mixed Martial Arts' started by Kevin, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. Charlay Atkins

    Charlay Atkins Samurai

    I am not even going to dignify this with a response, if only in fear of landing me in further deep water.:p
    You bunch of juvenile delinquents. :rolleyes:
     
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  2. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Kevin, where the hell is the fisherman smiley face that we so desperately need?:LOL:
    EDIT: I found one! [​IMG]
    As far as that goes, it certainly isn't the case for MMA (boxing is a whole other animal). Look no further than the top dog for MMA in Dana White who most notably forced Chuck Liddell into retirement for his own well-being. Dana could have easily let Chuck fight and make more money off of what would continue to be a great draw due to his star power. But Dana saw that he wasn't the fighter he was and was taking too much punishment and basically said "You're done fighting, Chuck." Also, there aren't many organizations that take care of their guys and finds something for them after they're done competing like the UFC does. But overall I get it that it's more a philosophical difference rather than a hair-splitting contest of Who cares and who doesn't?
     
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  3. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    President of the UFC asks Chuck Liddell to retire

     
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  4. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    haha Careful Dana White is definitely not a saint, he"s all about the money and Chuck retiring protected his status as a legend and he was able to move into more mainstream tv, dancing with the stars etc and him working as Vp for business development for the UFC ,

    Dana's a hard line business man so Im sure the Chuck scenario actually helped them financially
     
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  5. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    Yes you're right. But you're missing the point above. He would have made a ton more money at that time by having him continue to fight. Rather then giving him a job and pulling one of his biggest draws.
     
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  6. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    I have been watching Dana since day 1, and he is not all about making money. Sure, he does that, and is great at it, but he LOVES the sport, loves the fighters, and his job. To me, he is one of the most stand-up guys I have seen in entertainment ever, he says what he means, he means what he says, he isn't afraid to say he was wrong, and he isn't wrong to say he is afraid. He changes his opinions but lets you know why, and he treats people fairly and with empathy.
     
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  7. Locutus

    Locutus Your fight is futile, my hands are pounding you!

    Totally agree with that.
     
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  8. Kevin

    Kevin Admin Staff Member

    With regards to fighters getting medical insurance and what they are paid etc, I watched a video yesterday where he mentioned the issue.

     
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  9. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    i dont know if he would have, soon as a legend starts losing continuously people jump ship very quickly, look at what happened with Fedor before his second loss people were all best figher of all time, after his second loss everyone wrote him off including the media, I think Dana being in the fight game knows this and would rather have his fighters go out legends rather than has beens
     
  10. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    my problem with him is how he is not consistent, lets take Stephen Bonnar as an example he's been quoted many times as saying him and forest made such a massive impact on the ufc etc etc and they will always have a job with the ufc etc etc, Then obviously Bonnars steroid story and he gets cut, Then guy like Chael gets busted during a title fight and comes back 9 month odd later and gets to fight Silva again why the reason is Chael is a top ppv draw card and Bonnar isnt, simple as that, yes Dana loves the sport and has a passion for it and Im really glad they have a guy like that as the Head BUT its all about building the brand
     
  11. MattCMMA

    MattCMMA Master

    Fedor got wrote off because he wasn't smart enough to sign with the UFC. Which ALL MMA fans and media wanted more then anything. It made him loo extremely arrogant.


    You're talking about Stephan Bonner and Cheal Sonnen in very different parts of their career's. Cheal took his suspension and fines and was welcomed back because of his performance against his first fight against Anderson Silva, which nobody had even came close to doing EVEN to this day. Stephan Bonner was at the end of his career, this was very well known. The only reason he took the fight with Anderson Silva is for a final big payday.
     
  12. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    Getting caught doing steroids and having too high count of testosterone are 2 different beasts. Chael was never caught doing steroids, and he is on TRT, so you can't compare that to having tested positive for steroids. It would be better to compare it to Nick Diaz's medical marijuana. That is the reason Bonnar got cut. Chael told the commission before the fight that he was on TRT as well. The nice thing about Dana is, I believe that he will bring back Bonnar in a non-fight capacity. Silva was Bonnar's last fight, anyway, so once everyone forgets the whole steroid thing (the steroids were prescription for his knee, he had work done on it, it wasn't malicious I believe) I think he gets a call from Dana.
     
  13. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    CSAC suspensions and appeals

    Urinalysis conducted after his loss to Anderson Silva showed Sonnen had an unallowably high testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio of 16.9:1 at the time of the fight. An average man has a T/E ratio of 1:1, and testing bodies may allow a ratio as high as 4:1 for athletes. In other words, Sonnen's T/E ratio was nearly 17 times than a normal man's and over four times the allowed maximum for an athlete.[24] He was fined $2,500 and suspended for one year (until September 2, 2011) by theCalifornia State Athletic Commission (CSAC).[25] His scheduled rematch with Silva was subsequently cancelled.[26][27]

    4 times the range allowed for an athlete doesnt sound performance enhancing :sneaky:

    Im not the only cynical one
    MMAmania.com's own Geno Mrosko has a different take:
    ...Why is it that Sonnen, a near universally hated and completely fabricated personality, was allowed to keep his job while Marquardt, a widely accepted "sweetheart" and decent human being, was not?

    This is where the line blurs from sport to entertainment. Well, that and money.

    When Sonnen was busted, he had already delivered hundreds of thousands of pay-per-view buys and one of the greatest fights in the history of the organization.

    Marquardt's problems prevented him from competing in the main event of a card that had already been more of a headache than it was likely worth.

    Not only did he not make the company any money, he actually cost them money thanks to his removal from the show. His heavily publicized suspension and firing stole all the attention away from the event.

    CSAC Executive Director George Dodd has also contradicted Sonnen's testimony, stating the CSAC has no documentary evidence of Sonnen ever being approved for TRT.[36]

    Sonnen is a ppv powerhouse thats why he stays and all others that fail, get dumped
     
  14. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    If you watched the interviews, Sonnen claims he TOLD the commissioner, and afterwards was told he was supposed to submit it in writing. Sonnen went on for a while angry about the lack of transparency in the CSAC.

    As for your posting, that STILL says nothing about steroids. It STILL says his testosterone was high. What was the point of that? Did we miss your point?
     
  15. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    well
    firstly

    Keith Kizer publicly responded to Sonnen's testimony, claiming the NSAC had never approved Sonnen for TRT, Sonnen had never applied for the approval process, and he had "never talked to Chael Sonnen in [his] life.and On January 3, 2011, Sonnen pleaded guilty to money laundering in connection with mortgage fraud. so Im sure Chaels testimony is honest :banghead: cmon man,



    One of the most well-known kinds of steroids is the anabolic steroid or artificial testosterone. It is originally intended to treat males who have little or no natural testosterone production but has eventually addressed other conditions like infertility, erectile dysfunction, height growth, anemia, and appetite stimulation. It has also been used by body-builders and, illegally, by athletes to enhance skeletal muscles, strength and endurance.

    Read more: Difference Between Steroid and Testosterone | Difference Between | Steroid vs Testosterone http://www.differencebetween.net/science/health/difference-between-steroid-and-testosterone/#ixzz2Np0WW2Xj


    There you go
     
  16. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    Im not trying to convict Chael i think he's a great fighter but based on the evidence and his fraud conviction he is not the most honest trustworthy individual, Im a huge Overheem fan do i believe that he is using YES do i believe his BS stories hell no, Am I still a fan YES. where I started with the discussion was the fact that Dana is inconsistent when it comes to cutting individuals and I believe that stems from financial gain,
     
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  17. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    The important part of this conversation, though, is that Sonnen was not caught with an illegal substance in his body. Sure, steroids cause high testosterone, but so does TRT, which IS what he a part of. It is different with Overeem, he WAS caught with an illegal substance in his body. Do I think Sonnen did steroids before he came to the UFC? I would be surprised if he didn't. Wrestling is plagued with PED issues. But he has NEVER tested positive for and PED's, therefore you cannot say that he was, no matter what you believe. You CAN say you believe he was using, but you still cannot state as a fact that he was. It is an important difference of credibility for your statements that you understand the difference. The point is, and stick with this, Dana kicks out repeat offenders for testing positive for Illegal substances, which Chael has not done. I am not defending Chael in this instance, I would, in fact, be defending Dana, and his consistency.
     
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  18. Eric Dufurrena

    Eric Dufurrena The Iron Fist of Fun

    I have heard that before. I think hearing Chael refute that over and over just made me forget. In the case of whether Chael told him or not, I am going to have to say it doesn't matter, he still didn't do the proper procedure, therefore he paid the price.
     
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  19. DeeD

    DeeD Nak Muay

    Overheem just tested positive for elevated levels of test same as Chael his levels were 11:1 opposed to Chaels at 17:1 so technically the same boat

    But I think the main concern is that TRT is becoming a legal way of using PED's, agreed if someone is deficient and are at a level where they are within a normal range when tested fair enough but all these guys Chael, Reem etc whichever way u look at it are between 3-4 times over what an athlete is allowed, Now having a legit prescription for a bs disorder or dosages higher than needed is this what we want to encourage as fans

    fair enough I just honestly believe that if Chael wasnt such a drawcard he would have been kicked to the curb
     
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  20. Kevin

    Kevin Admin Staff Member

    I read somewhere that he thought he was retired, so he was taking steroids to help with a knee problem.
     

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