Why does the USA have such a high Crime Rate? Easy access to Guns is one issue ... what else?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Sensei Martin, Jul 21, 2012.

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  1. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    Let`s compare the USA to it`s closest neighbor, statistically speaking. Canada has 10% the population and is the largest country in the world, but shares a similar culture & history, but a less violent one.

    Actually, Canadians have as many guns as Americans (statistically speaking) only these are usually in rural areas and are rifles, shotguns, etc.,.. NOT handguns. Most handguns that do make it to Canada illegally are traced back to the USA.

    Here is a Report of Crimes Rate Comparisons between USA and Canada : http://web4.uwindsor.ca/users/m/mfc...88005720f6/$FILE/ATT8BNDV/0110185-002-XIE.pdf

    Stats Can website does have a more recent report that actually shows crime rates have gone down, over all, in Canada while they have continued to rise in the USA.


    +Based on selected offences, the United States has had a much higher rate of reported violent crime than Canada. The homicide rate was three times higher in the United States than it was in Canada, while the American rate for aggravated assault was double the Canadian rate. For robbery, the rate was 65% higher in the United States.

    +Compared to American cities, Canadian cities had lower rates of homicides, aggravated assaults and robberies.

    +In 2000, police in the United States reported 5.5 homicides for every 100,000 population-triple the Canadian rate of 1.8. The number of homicides has declined in both countries during the 1990s, particularly south of the border. Two decades ago, the American homicide rate was about four times that of Canada.

    +About two-thirds of homicides in the United States involved a firearm, compared with one-third in Canada.

    +In 2000, Americans were far more likely than Canadians to be victims of aggravated assault. The U.S. rate of 324 aggravated assaults for every 100,000 population was more than double the Canadian rate of 143. However, the U.S. rate has been falling since 1994, culminating with a 3% decline in 2000. In contrast, the Canadian rate has remained relatively stable since 1994, but was up 7% in 2000.

    +The American rate of reported robbery was 65% higher than in Canada in 2000, and the difference was much more pronounced with respect to robberies committed with a firearm. In 2000, firearms were involved in 41% of robberies south of the border, compared with only 16% in Canada. Since 1991, police-reported robbery rates have been declining in both countries. During this period, rates fell 47% in the United States-almost twice the 26% decline in Canada.

    +Urban crime: U.S. cities lead in violent crime

    On average, for metropolitan areas with populations over 500,000, American cities had higher rates of homicide, aggravated assault, and robbery than did Canadian cities. This is consistent with the overall national patterns.
  2. WonderingFist

    WonderingFist Disciple of Mind

    I don't live in the US but from a few things I've watched and from what I've been told from people who live in the US, (prepare your tin foil hats); the reason the countries crime rates are so ridiculous is the fact that you're pumped full of fear.

    I was watching the expose film "Bowling for Columbine", and the reported something interested - that whilst the murder rate had gone down like 60%? Reports of murder and home invasion that were televised rose like 300%.
    I don't remember the exact numbers, but that's got something to do with it I reckon.
    ...and just from what I've seen run along my news feed on facebook from different news sites and reporting sites, I ALWAYS see some sort of "burned alive", "mugged by 3 armed guys", "home invasion leaves 3 dead"....
    With everyone so paranoid and fearful, I'm not surprised the crime rate is high.
    Sensei Martin and RJ Clark like this.
  3. Gone

    Gone Guest

    Too much trash culture, drug and gang culture, etc
  4. WonderingFist

    WonderingFist Disciple of Mind

    That's not a very fair statement, if you know where to look, Australia's drug and gang culture is booming! and our bikies are a lot more scary than American Bikies :p
    Red Australian likes this.
  5. Gone

    Gone Guest

    Ohh, I know. We're just as bad. And it is heartbreaking. We should not be like that.
    Half the reason I started martial arts is because I have heard one too many stories of old folks getting bashed for their pension money, houses getting broken into at night, and 10-against-1 gang bashings on the street. It sickens me, and I wouldn't walk away from such a thing if I ever saw it. I'd wanna help. Even if it means getting my own ass kicked. I would kick my own ass alot worse if I saw something and didn't act in good nature.
  6. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Oh Sensei Martin, here you go again. There isn't quite the disparity in our crime rates as you're implying.
    I could flip it back on you and say how is it that your crime rate isn't significantly lower since California has a larger population than Canada itself? Should be easier to control the crime rate with such a small general population, right?
    The US has a significantly larger population and therefor much more room for dramatic statistical fluctuations, but our countries are about the same stat wise. But stats are like anything else, you can pick and choose to best support any argument.
    I don't really want to get sucked into this political BS again like in the other thread. But personally, I think we (USA) would have a significantly lower crime rate if it was easier for law-abiding citizens to legally arm themselves, especially the concealed carry of pistols. If every state adopted unrestricted or at least shall issue for concealed carry, horrific incidents like what just happened in Aurora could be stopped quickly by armed citizens. Or these scumbags might not even fantasize about doing things like that knowing that anywhere they go law-abiding people who have firearms will be there and are well able to protect themselves.
  7. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    Hi RJ - I am reporting documented stats - stats - on the same rate or ratio or percentage as in a per 1000 example. If 5% of the population of the USA enjoyed chocolate, vs say 5% of Canadians like the same, as compared to 9% of British, then actual population numbers do not matter. As for population density rates, 99% of Canadians live in 1% of the same land mass area.

    Again, gun ownership in Canada is one of the highest in the world, but ONLY for rifles, shotguns used for hunting; NOT Hand Guns - that are used to Hide and Kill people.

    The facts are there in black and white.
  8. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    Wonderfist, I think you hit in Square on the Head. FEAR. FEAR promoted by Government is the proven way to take away people`s liberties and distract them away from corruption but creating a FAKE ENEMY from within and outside their boarders.

    ``It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.``

    James Madison (1751–1836)

    Quote: from http://www.helium.com/items/849752-do-modern-governments-control-through-fear

    Fear sells. It is among the best known motivational tools. Given the opportunity people will always act in a way that isolates them or protects them from that which they fear and this fact has never escaped the notice of those in power as they seek to exercise control over their subjects.

    The activities of the current American government could have been taken straight from Hermann Goering's play-book. At the Nuremberg War Crimes trial, the infamous Nazi leader is quoted as having said, "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

    Promote enough fear in the populace and they will give up any and all freedoms in order to feel safe. To be free from fear is a primal human need, more basic than is hunger, the need for shelter, the sex drive or practically any other motivator you care to mention. Think for a moment, what would cause you to come out of your cave, bare handed, to face a hungry tiger? The fear of you being destroyed would trump almost anything else.

    Modern governments are no different from governments throughout history. Any leader worth his salt has always had the ability to govern the activities of his subjects through fear. The question to be asked is not whether a government uses fear to control its citizens but, rather, does that government manufacture the fear that it uses?

    Conspiracy theories abound. Going back to the very beginning, there are some who would say that Eve might have conspired with the serpent in order to get kicked out of the Garden of Eden because she was tired of being a farmer's wife.

    Every major disaster brings out not only conspiracy buffs but also those who take the opposing position that no one would purposefully visit such heinous events on their fellow citizens for mere political gain. While each conspiracy theory must be judged on its own merit, Munchausen By Proxy, as a test hypothesis, can be applied to all.

    MBP is a label for a pattern of behavior in which caretakers deliberately exaggerate, fabricate and/or induce physical, psychological, behavioral and/or mental health problems in others. This is done so that the perpetrator can gain an advantage by being in position to rescue or in some way come to the aid of the victim.

    Munchausen, as a medical condition, is bad enough. But if it is manifested in government, as a means to remove constitutional constraints or otherwise control a populace, it becomes diabolical.

    Do governments control through fear? Absolutely. Do governments manufacture fear at the cost of lives and the well being of some of its citizens in a sort of perverted Munchausen By Proxy in order to gain a greater measure of control?

    That I will leave to the theorists.
  9. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    Oh darn it, I'm replying to political stuff! Percentages: Yes, we have more murders with firearms (ranked 1st Can ranked 9th). Canada has more rapes (ranked 8th, US ranked 13th) and assaults (5th US-11th). Canada's total crime victims % has you ranked 7th, US ranked 15th. The rest is close enough to not really matter. If your question is about why we have more murders with firearms, then ask that. Rather than such a general question about a high crime rate that can be debated and supported by stats in many directions.
    Nexquietus likes this.
  10. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    RJ, Stats Canada is an official and recognized collector & data analyzer of information.

    It is not fairy dust. This is not an attack on you, I am simply giving facts, and asking questions. I don`t know, maybe you simply are unaware or unwilling to look at facts in a non emotional way. Remove yourself from the formula and look, if you have the ability. Saying there is no issue is like putting your head in the sand, IMO.
    RJ Clark likes this.
  11. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    The stat that is most important to consider is what is the percentage of murders committed with illegally acquired firearms. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find exactly that stat anywhere. My friends in law enforcement have said it's a very high. But a half dozen guys saying that doesn't hold as much weight as a nation-wide data compilation with actual percentages. Again, IMO shall issue for concealed carry to arm law-abiding citizens and the murder rate will drop.
    Nexquietus likes this.
  12. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    I'm not taking it as an attack on me. Again, your initial question was very general, but on subsequent posts the real issues appeared to be murders and handguns. Overall, I don't care in the least about stats or politics. As far as putting my head in the sand :) there would have to be a huge disparity in the per capita crime rate for it to be noticable by you or I going about our lives. I'm not going to worry any more (or any less) about a possible assault while in Canada than I do here. And you don't really need to worry about getting shot here any more than you do in Canada.
    Perhaps you could look at handguns in a less emotional way to consider what I said about issuing them to law-abiding citizens
    Nexquietus likes this.
  13. KeithW

    KeithW "Just keep training..."

    I agree with the assessment of RJ Clark above. Further, we have a horrible thought process in this country that is popularly referred to as the 'entitlement mentality'. It is the belief of a person that they are entitled to whatever they want whenever they want it. You want an extra $1000 to spend on clothes? Just steal it from someone. Better yet, just steal the clothes. Someone makes you angry? Just shoot them. Feel depressed because you don't feel important? Walk into a movie theater during a national movie premier and create havoc.

    It's a pervasive mindset in the United States. My theory, in tandem with the theory put forth by RJ, is a recipe for crime.
    Nexquietus likes this.
  14. Nexquietus

    Nexquietus Disciple

    Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics... How many murders were prevented by handgun ownership? Where's the Stats Can stat for that? None? I popped in to say that I'm totally with RJ. I do applaud Canada for their more treatment / therapy based prison system, as ours tends toward a Gladiator academy model. I think is anything, that may be to blame. People go into prison and to survive HAVE to affiliate themselves with a gang that then teaches them criminal techniques, and the only the strong survive mentality, and to devalue human life to advance your own. Add to that the "THEY OWE ME" mentality and you understand why Obama's in the White House, but that's stuff for a different thread.
    The crime rates are just numbers. You can hide behind all the numbers you want. You think Stats Can wants to produce stats that show Canada as having WORSE crime numbers than the US? Nope, they just ask the questions that give them the answers they want to find so the government and news agencies will continue to give them money for their data mining. Take a Stats class. That's what stats are for, give your client the info they want to hear.

    RJ Clark likes this.
  15. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Samurai

    I thought this forum is supposed to be about Martial arts not about any status or country politics! As a law enforcement officer, I'm not going to give my opinion based on these stats or any politicial views! I think this thread should end.... Master Fahy
    Schubertdog likes this.
  16. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    I concur with Keith and Nextquitus that many people in society feel they can simply take what they want.

    BUT - the logic to say ``Having the Right for everyone to Carry a Concealed Gun will mean less get Shot`` has no logic & is fear based. Even if everyone was trained to the level of an officer on how to use a gun (which what would be required, and has been proven with many studies ), going into a room or walking down the street with `trigger ready`` people is an accident ready to happen.

    Take away Guns = Take away people`s ability to use them. No Guns = No shootings. hmm......

    At best, perhaps many Americans feel ``entitled`` to carry a gun. Maybe they feel ``entitled`` to kill another person, too? Why not have public executions while we are at it, and treat our enemies like animals. What? Oh. This is already true. My wrong.

    As for Stats and numbers - numbers do not lie. And, here are some NON Canadian numbers and reports that point in the same direction.

    +Crime Statistics > Murders with firearms (most recent) by country (US is #4)


    +Fewer Guns Mean Fewer Gun Homicides (by Nat Bureau Economics)


    +International Comparisons of Firearm Ownership



  17. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    Hi Master Fahy.

    There has been a lot of talk on other treads about street violence and how guns ``protect people``. So, this is a separate discussion to share facts and input about this issue.
  18. RJ Clark

    RJ Clark Tree Ninja Staff Member

    I'm a bit bored with this political stuff. As Nexquietus said, stats give your client the info they want to hear. Here's some concealed carry stats for you to check out http://www.carryconcealed.net/carrying-concealed-statistics
    Again, anyone can pick whatever study they want to get the stats they need to support any point of view. But as I said before,
    THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A HUGE DISPARITY IN THE PER CAPITA CRIME RATE FOR IT TO BE NOTICABLE BY YOU OR I GOING ABOUT OUR LIVES. It's not the Wild West here in the US and you're not a Utopia. Looking at stats and from experience (I love vacationing in Canada) it's close enough to not make me any more or less cautious than I already am no matter which country I'm in.
    Nexquietus likes this.
  19. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    Actually the countries that ban the citizens from owning guns have the highest crime rates.

    Those crimes are committed by the "govment" against the people and they include:

    Cuba, China, Pol Pot's Cambodia, the Soviet Union, North Korea, East Germany, Rumania, Checkslovakia, Yugoslavia, the entire communist block (yes I know they no longer exist) etc.

    Sensei Martin, what happened last night was deplorable, sick, crazy yet my Glock did not kill anyone last night, neither did my AR, so why don't we look as to the mental state of the shooter? Where there any signs of a mental problems? If so, why was nothing done? I find it amazing that most shootings occur in places where you cannot carry legally. Virginia Tech, Columbine, a theater? How could that happen, guns were banned? I never heard of a shooting at an NRA convention, pistol competition, etc. Let qualified, trained, citizens carry and lets see what happens. Crime rate decreases.

    Chicago-High Crime rate/High gun control.
    Kennesaw, Ga.- Every citizen is required to own a gun at home. Low crime rate.


    Why did his mother make the comment she made where she was not surprised that he had done this?

    Also, what if there were several concealed carry law abiding citizens in the movieplex? Maybe less people would have died.

    Did you guys not see the video of the internet cafe where the 71 yr old pulled his weapon and shot the two assailants? What if the assailant with a gun had shot three people? Clearly, he could not when the 71 yr old started shooting.

    The crime rate in the US is high due to a complete breakdown of the family. Children, specially boys who are raised without a father do not generally listen to the mother, so they do what they please.

    As far as last night's horrible occurrence, there are three types of people wolf, sheepdog and sheep.

    Generally the sheep are afraid of the wolf and sadly, the sheepdog, until they need the sheepdog.......The guy last night was a crazy wolf who killed the sheep because no sheepdogs were allowed to be there.

    After you read this you will know if you are one of the Sheep, Wolves or Sheepdogs.

    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs – Dave Grossman

    By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of “On Killing.”
    The following is an excerpt from On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by Dave Grossman
    Go to the link at the bottom of the page for the complete article.
    One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:
    “Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.
    Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
    I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
    “Then there are the wolves,” the old war veteran said, “and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.” Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.
    “Then there are sheepdogs,” he went on, “and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.”
    If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed
    Complete Article—>Here
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  20. chris halkett

    chris halkett Warrior Monk

    To quote alfried "some men arent looking for anything logical like money they cant be bought,bullied reasoned or negotiated with some men just want to watch the world burn" condolinces to the familys of this tragidy
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