Why does the USA have such a high Crime Rate? Easy access to Guns is one issue ... what else?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Sensei Martin, Jul 21, 2012.

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  1. Kevin

    Kevin Admin Staff Member

    Health care is something that will always polarise opinions from countries that have it and countries that don't. Coming from the UK, health care is something that I think everyone should have. Hospitals shouldn't turn away anyone based on how much money they have in their wallets.

    This view was strengthened recently when my girlfriends little cousin caught pneumonia (in Colombia). As their insurance hadn't been renewed (it was free with my gf's last job), we were hit with a large bill at the end of it. This made me appreciate how lucky we are in the UK to not have to worry about money when someone gets sick.

    Despite this, the system is far from perfect. There are long waiting times for appointments and I have what many people would say is a cold view towards certain people. I would prefer more hardcode rules against those who don't look after themselves. People who eat too much yet know it's bad for them, people who drink too much, people who smoke too much etc. The problem is, many of the people who milk the system contribute nothing back (i.e. don't work). I'm not saying people shouldn't be treated, but there needs to be some sort of system where people who do look after themselves are not pushed behind those who live in excess their whole lives.

    That being said, I hope health care is never removed. The fact that someone who is sick can just walk into any hospital and get help is great.
     
  2. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Yeah, Senesei Martin it was a discussion about crimes and guns (started by you) as part of your broader anti-USA agenda which you've made fairly clear in several recent posts and a number of other posts going back in time in the forum. And numbers do lie, particularly when used by ass-hats like you with an agenda who cite stats that are either out of date or don't exist (or who misuse the stats they do have).

    Case in point: Canada is fucking White as hell regardless of what culture they come from. That is the reality. It is not as racially diverse as the United States. But you have tried to make it sound like Canada is as diverse as the United States. Canada is about 70% white 25% "mixed" (which is an amorphous term that doesn't necessarily mean non-Caucasion) and about 5% other, including Black, Arab, etc.

    My "Southern Hospitality" only extends so far, and when I see "Northern douche" continually trying to attack my country and my people with made up crap, false, out-of-date, or misstated statistics, and general douche-baggery, you've worn your right to be treated with any hospitality out.

    No Martin, if you want to look to anyone who is behaving in an inappropriate manner on here, it is you. Stop acting like an asshole and I'll stop treating you like one. We get it, you don't like the US. You've made that very clear. This thread is just another attempt to make that point clear. What is funny is that you claim the "better than you" attitude is coming from the Americans here, when it isn't at all. It is coming from YOU. Some crazy person comes on here saying something stupid about a draft and you run off on a tangent about the USA's "empire". Self defense against weapons is discussed and you talk about how violent Americans are and then cite skewed or false stats to prove your point.

    You are the one who is showing himself to be a haughty "We're better than you" fool. And you expect me to treat you nicely and with respect when you do that? Nope, I'll treat you like the moronic ass-hat that you are, because that is all you've proven yourself worthy of being treated.
     
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  3. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    I don't want state run, rationed health care. You keep it....
     
  4. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    Free access to health care does not guarantee any access to health care or QUALITY health care....What good is it if you can't see an oncologist for four months when you find a bump in your testicle or breast? YOU DIE.....
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/wait-time-to-see-canadian-doctors-grows.html
    The death rates for cancer in Canada are much higher than in the US, the time to see an specialist in Canada is MONTHS if at all. Canadians are very concerned about Obamacare because they won't be able to cross the border and actually SEE a doctor before they die.
    http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/se...l-rates-in-usa-better-than-europe-and-canada/
    You all can Google all of that if you are interested in the facts. There is NOTHING free. There is always a trade off. Basic economics. You can't increase the demand for a product (health care) with out increasing the supply (doctors) for the cost not to rise. US doctors are thinking of giving up medicine. My father is a doctor and I have tons of doctor friends...

    Remember these words five, ten years from now when you need some procedure that is rationed by the government.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/09/the-canadian-patients’-remedy-for-health-care-go-to-america/
    I will take Cleveland Clinic, or the Mayo Clinic over any hospital in the world....find a better one.
    http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/canadian-politician-comes-to-us-for-heart-surgery/
    Mr. Bond.
     
  5. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

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  6. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Something to remember, one of the victims of the Colorado tragedy had previously survived a random shooting spree in Toronto-area mall just a few weeks ago.

    http://news.yahoo.com/batman-victim-had-escaped-toronto-shooting-021303083.html
     
  7. Michael Spivey

    Michael Spivey Warrior Monk

    The question that is often asked is "Why do you carry a sidearm?" My answer is "Because an LEO weighs too much." I am also accused of being paranoid, my reply is "no more so than you who keep a spare tire in your trunk or band-aids in your first aide kit."

    Perhaps this says it best; "The freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutionally protected right -- subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility." -- L. Neil Smith
     
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  8. stay alert, stay alive. i am with you on this one. I am always staying aware of my surroundings and people have always accused me of being paranoid also, but it has saved my rear a few times already. of course, I had this beat into my mindset while training as a bodyguard and also serving in the ARMY.
     
  9. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    http://townhall.com/columnists/doug...cre__why_i_carry_a_gun_everywhere_i_go/page/2
    The Dark Knight Movie Massacre & Why I Carry a Gun Everywhere I Go

    Jul 22, 2012
    Sign-Up
    I would venture to guess that the folks filing in to see the latest Batman installment in Aurora, Colorado last Thursday evening didn’t figure on over 70 of them getting shot before the credits rolled. The last count I received before filing this column was 12 dead and 59 wounded.
    As the news starting pouring in about what happened in the theater this week when Satan’s spawn James Holmes donned Kevlar and a small battery of weapons and opened fire on an unsuspecting crowd, I kept thinking, “One fast-thinking and trained person who was armed/licensed with a concealed weapon could have stopped that SOB right in his tracks before the body count skyrocketed.”
    Yep, the armed citizen could have either killed him, sent him running for cover, or at least diverted his fire away from the masses and toward their person. Some readers, no doubt, are saying, “Well that would be stupid. What if that citizen got shot trying to protect others?” To that I reply: Well, Dinky, if they would have been shot and killed at least they would have died a hero. Have you ever heard of the term “hero”?
    The Aurora Dark Knight Massacre is exactly why I carry at least one gun everywhere I go—because crap always happens when you least expect it. That’s why, as responsible citizens and gun owners, we must always be ready and must always expect it because when it happens, it happens fast; if you’re not ready, you and others are screwed.
    For instance, it’s a beautiful and quiet day on Miami Beach this morning. I’m drinking my coffee at an outdoor cafe, minding my own business while I work on this column and on my website. I don’t see any bath salt zombies on the prowl. There are no Trench Coat Mafia wannabes lurking around. There is no real foreseeable reason to carry a weapon. But I am. The reason? Well, I’m not omniscient. I’m just a dumb clunk living in a jacked-up world where med school students go bat crap crazy and shoot up normally peaceful places for inexplicable reasons. Therefore, I’m locked, cocked and ready to rock should some demented dill weed decide to strafe the local patrons sipping a cup of Joe.
    For those who say, “Doug’s insane with all this concealed weapons crap. We should leave such affairs to the police,” allow me to point out that the theater was crawling with cops for the Batman opening to control the crowds. By the time the police got to the particular theater, it was all over. Blood was already running down the aisles and the gunman had already left the building. You, my friend, are your first responder … your first line of defense.​
     
  10. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    I don't carry a gun anywhere I go, nor do I even own one or care to. The threat of violent crime in the United States isn't particularly high as a nation. Several friends of mine are high end bodyguards for the rich and famous and they carry weapons for work. When they aren't working, they aren't carrying.

    Mass killings like what just happened in Colorado are certainly tragic, but statistically, you have about the same chance of winning the lottery twice as ever being caught up in such a situation. Frankly, the odds are so remote that it isn't even worth seriously worrying about.

    All this fear-mongering just plays into the unsubstantiated biases of ass-hats like Martin who want to cast aspersions on the "violent culture" of the United States and make false claims about violent crime rates here. I used to box at an "inner city" gym that White people feared going because of irrational fears. I rode the bus there, and was often there at night. Not once, not a single time was I ever a victim of a violent crime nor did I ever have reason to believe I would be. I never witnesses an attack. Statistically speaking, the area I was in is where most of the violent crime took place, but even there, nothing...

    If you want to be prepared and exercise your right to bear arms, go for it. But don't let people like Martin misconstrue your words to try and prove his Anti-American sloganeering.
     
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  11. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    Gun Control Only Makes Law-Abiding People Defenseless

    posted on July 21, 2012 by Gary DeMar

    45


    [​IMG]One of the missing elements of the Aurora, Colorado, shooting spree was the apartment of James Holmes. There is an abundant amount of news coverage describing how it was wired with explosives. The first person who entered the room would have been killed. The police need to be commended for some good reconnaissance work.
    If the shooter planned for months to kill people and trip-wire his apartment, making the purchase of guns illegal would not have stopped him. He would have used explosives. They’re illegal, too. More people would have been killed because of the percussion effect – an explosive device going off in a small space.
    If people want to kill other people, the law’s not going to stop them. Box cutters and airplanes brought down the Twin Towers. If word got out that ten to twenty percent of the population was carrying a firearm, I suspect that nut jobs and world-be terrorists would have second thoughts about going on shooting rampages. We might, however, see an up-tick in other types of killings.
    Great Britain has strict gun control laws. Advocates of gun control believe that these laws cut down on violence and crime. Such laws only empower lawbreakers. Gun homicides were low in the United Kingdom even before gun control laws went into effect. This does not mean that there hasn’t been any gun violence since these laws went into effect in 1977.
    “Over the course of a few days in the summer of 2001, gun-toting men burst into an English court and freed two defendants; a shooting outside a London nightclub left five women and three men wounded; and two men were machine-gunned to death in a residential neighborhood of north London. And on New Year’s Day this year [2002] a 19-year-old girl walking on a main street in east London was shot in the head by a thief who wanted her mobile phone. London police are now looking to New York City police for advice.”​
    Gun control has had an impact elsewhere: a dramatic increase in other violent crimes. “For example, comparing London and New York, cities of very similar population and demographics, the rate of assaults and robberies is over six times as high, and 7 or 10 times nationwide (depending on statistic used).” Compared with the United States, “the United Kingdom has a slightly higher total crime rate per capita of approximately 85 per 1000 people, while in the USA it is approximately 80.”
    The most recent riots in London indicate that lawless people will use any means at their disposal to force their wills on others. Three men were killed by an automobile, people were openly beaten in the streets, and business establishments were looted while others were burned. Store owners had no way of protecting their property. The people doing the looting, and they weren’t just the poor and disenfranchised (a millionaire’s daughter, a ballet student, a musician, an organic chef, a university graduate student, and a law student are just some of the types of people arrested), knew that they would meet little resistance.
    “In reality, the English approach has not reduced violent crime. Instead it has left law-abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals who are confident that their victims have neither the means nor the legal right to resist them. Imitating this model would be a public safety disaster for the United States.”​
    So what does the law abiding citizen do? He shops on Amazon for baseball bats! He can’t buy guns, so he gets the next best thing, a metal version of the Louisville Slugger. In a 24-hour period, sales for baseball bats on Amazon UK rose by more than 6000 percent during the London riots in August of 2011.
    Defenseless citizens were also buying police-style telescoping truncheons. (The spring-loaded ones are illegal.) The Guardian reported the following: “Amazon has removed several police-style telescopic truncheons from sale on its site as soaring sales of truncheons, baseball bats and other items that could be used as weapons sparked fears of vigilantism in the wake of widespread rioting.”
    So now, law-abiding citizens are even more defenseless. They can’t even order a baseball bat on line to protect themselves from roaming thugs. Maybe it’s time they whittle down their cricket bats. Paul Joseph Watsonwrites: “Just like gun control, banning baseball bats only disarms the public and creates victims. Criminals will always be able to acquire weapons of any description because they do not obey laws. Leaving Brits defenseless will only embolden the rioting hordes.”​

     
  12. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    Mr Enkidu

    Using fowl language, ignoring facts, the inability to have a discussion without being open to other possibilities, and open name calling really shows the true qualities the Martial Art Master you truly are.

    We totally respect you. :)
     
  13. Mr.Bond

    Mr.Bond Big Ass Dog

    From the article above....

    Gun control has had an impact elsewhere: a dramatic increase in other violent crimes. “For example, comparing London and New York, cities of very similar population and demographics, the rate of assaults and robberies is over six times as high, and 7 or 10 times nationwide (depending on statistic used).” Compared with the United States, “the United Kingdom has a slightly higher total crime rate per capita of approximately 85 per 1000 people, while in the USA it is approximately 80.”
    The most recent riots in London indicate that lawless people will use any means at their disposal to force their wills on others. Three men were killed by an automobile, people were openly beaten in the streets, and business establishments were looted while others were burned. Store owners had no way of protecting their property. The people doing the looting, and they weren’t just the poor and disenfranchised (a millionaire’s daughter, a ballet student, a musician, an organic chef, a university graduate student, and a law student are just some of the types of people arrested), knew that they would meet little resistance.
    “In reality, the English approach has not reduced violent crime. Instead it has left law-abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals who are confident that their victims have neither the means nor the legal right to resist them. Imitating this model would be a public safety disaster for the United States.”
     
  14. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    At least I say what I really feel instead of hiding behind make-believe "respect" for others while actually not showing any. Any lack of respect I show for you is a circumstance of your creation, not mine. Don't slap me in the proverbial face with a smile on your face and using respectful language towards me and then act like I behave improperly when I knock you on your proverbial ass and tell you what I think of you.

    I am completely open to a real discussion of issues and facts. But you want to twist facts (or make them up) and scurry off on tangential issues whenever you are pressed. Like I said, when you behave in a manner that is worthy of respect I will treat you with respect. For so long as you act like an ass, I will treat you like one. Hell, even the title of your post is provocative and "assumes facts not in evidence" (i.e., that the crime rate in the USA is high and that "easy access to guns" are the reason for it). You don't want to discuss issues, you want to make conclusory assertions that poorly packed up by facts (out of date facts, misapplied use of facts, made up facts, or red-herring tangential discussions).

    Also, I read this post and the things said in it by you in the broader context of other things you written directed at the US and its citizens. And you have the hubris to sit here and cast aspersions on my character with snide little comments? Really, I don't give a fuck whether you respect me or not or whether you consider me a "martial arts master". Sorry for using more "fowl" [sic] language, but I don't mince words. If I think you are acting the fool, I will tell you, I won't pretend to have respect for your position. Not all viewpoints are equally deserving of consideration and respect.

    Oh, on a side note, I find it funny that you never responded to my post in which I posited that you were probably a 9/11 conspiracy theorist or "truther". I find that omission quite telling. I've run into enough of that type on the Internet to see the warning signs from you that you are part of such a mentality. You already use a lot of the catch-phrases and circular reasoning and demonstrate many of the same biases.
     
  15. Michael Spivey

    Michael Spivey Warrior Monk

    When you consider that here in New Mexico the population of the entire state is less than the population of just the Los Angles area it should be obvious to all but the clueless that armed citizens are most often the first responder and the first line of defense. I as an armed citizen has backed up armed LEOs more than once. To me there is no compromise concerning the ability and right to keep and bear arms, a right that here in the US is inalienable, not granted by the government, a right that all human beings have whether of not their moronic governments choose to recognize it. The final say so in this country is not the Federal or State Governments, not the Congress, not the Supreme Court if they choose to ignore or violate the natural rights all Americans have inherent in their being, the final say so is the citizenry as the framers intended and envisioned it to be.

    As I wrote above the quote from libertarian author and scholar L. Neil Smith says it best; "The freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutionally protected right -- subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility." -- L. Neil Smith
     
  16. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    Mr Enkidu

    At this point, I do not really care what you think. Your words explain enough about your personality already.

    If you want to learn more about 911 - maybe there are some leaked government documents on Wikileaks, I am not sure if they have done this yet as they have tons of material. I also know Michael Moore's documentary on this subject showed some pre-911 government documents that covers this.

    I would not be one to trust any official information given by the government, though.

     
  17. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    Just as I thought. You are a 9/11 "Truther".

    Your words have made it clear you are a fucking retard.
     
  18. Sensei Martin

    Sensei Martin Warrior Monk

    What kinder garden class are you in again?

    I assume you missed that class of being a bully - or were you kicked out that day for bad behavior?

    Your choice of words speak volumes about who you are as a person.
     
  19. Enkidu

    Enkidu Destroyer of your martial arts fantasies

    I take it back, Martin. You aren't a fucking retard. That would be an insult to fucking retards.

    By the way, it is "kindergarten" not "kinder garden". But I guess when you refer to someone as speaking "fowl" language as opposed to "foul" language, this is to be expected.

    Yes, my choice of words speaks volumes about who I am as a person -- a person who doesn't suffer fools lightly. They also speak volumes about who you are as a person.

    9/11 Truthers are among the lowest forms of life. Personally, I would favor forced sterilization.

    Sorry that you don't care for someone like me calling you on your steady spew of bullshit. Keep spewing bullshit and I'll keep calling you on it and telling you what I think of you.

    What I find funniest is that you come in this forum insulting Americans' intelligence, propensity for violence, knowledge of the world, hinting at governmental conspiracies, media conspiracies, asserting nonsense about the war in Afghanistan being a war to expand the USA's empire, waiving around out-of-date, false, or out-of-context statistics, using strawman arguments, and other obnoxious behavior and then you have the unmitigated chutzpah to cast aspersion on those who call you out on your nonsense.

    Yeah, clearly I'm the one acting the fool....

    :rollseyes:
     
  20. Kevin

    Kevin Admin Staff Member

    This kind of thing is really starting to get boring. If people can't discuss things amicably on the forum, exchange emails and discuss them privately.

    THREAD CLOSED
     
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